colin lad Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 not wanting to hijack frenchies thread thought i would ask on a new thread, on there they are discussing fac conditions what got me to check mine for my .222 when i applied for it i said i needed it for fox but that has not been put on my ticket what it says is as follows, the shooting of vermin or,in the course of carrying on activities in connection with the management of any estate,other wildlife the whole point of the .222 was for fox?? colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiDriver Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 If you shoot foxes with it, are you not managing wildlife (albeit in a fairly broad sense?) Are foxes classed as vermin ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Have another read of your conditions. I am sure the one you refer to is the expanding ammo condition, or at least part of it. Perhaps if you were to type the complete exact wording we may be able to offer the correct answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Have another read of your conditions. I am sure the one you refer to is the expanding ammo condition, or at least part of it. Perhaps if you were to type the complete exact wording we may be able to offer the correct answer. I'd have to go with CharlieT, that wording is remarkably similar to my wording talking about ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 There are mixed opinions on if fox is classed as vermin or not. The BASC seem to think that they are and if one of their members were ever to get into trouble over this they have said that they would fight it as they could not see a court not classing them as vermin. Having said that I was always under the inpression that you had to have fox specifically mentioned on your ticket to make shooting them legal. Mine does not mention fox for my .243 but as I have AOLQ I would be covered to shoot foxes with my .243. However my .222 has Fox specifically mentioned as well as AOLQ so I guess that Lancs Firearms Office do not recognise fox as vermin and class it differently for FAC purposes. Because of these mixed opinions I honestly would not like to say either way in case I am wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 It will be next to your rifles Colin where they list the calibers, mine just says deer and pests for everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Colin, I agree with what al4x has said. I don't know if this will help, hopefully it will. Here is a scan of the conditions on my FAC to try to help you understand. (Hopefully I have resized it correctly for you to read) You will see that section 5 covers the use of ammunition. This I believe is quite standard wording. What you need to look at is the actual conditions that cover the rifle(s) you have listed. i.e. sections 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 on my FAC. These show you what you are authorised to shoot with each rifle that you have listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 actually mine is slightly different these days but have a look at condition 5 as you are Beds and they have merged with Herts they may well be similar, but if you didn't ask for deer they may not have added them. Mine shows no reference to what caliber for what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I think this is simply highlighting the different way things are written/conditioned in different areas. Daft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I'd suggest Frenchies option is bonkers whereas mine i'm quite happy with, though thats actually my last cert the new one is similar. It puts the onus on me to decide what to shoot rather than try and get too complicated on conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Will have a look when i get in from work and post Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Have another read of your conditions. I am sure the one you refer to is the expanding ammo condition, or at least part of it. Perhaps if you were to type the complete exact wording we may be able to offer the correct answer. here you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 here you go There may be some debate in some quarters that fox isn't Vermin, but from what I see yours says Pest Control, and there isn't much debate the fox is a pest! You have the term, Other Wildlife as well at the end of 7, this crops up a lot and what is fox if not other wildlife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 thanks colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I think you need to question those conditions. Give your FEO a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 There you go then, condition 7 relates to the expanding ammo only and not to your firearms. What you may use your firearms for is detailed in condition 5. Although I must admit that they should have printed conditions 6&7 as one condition and numbered it 6 as every other county do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1 Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 My Additional conditions made me laugh, needs to go back to be amended, who can spot the mistake ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 There may be some debate in some quarters that fox isn't Vermin, but from what I see yours says Pest Control, and there isn't much debate the fox is a pest! You have the term, Other Wildlife as well at the end of 7, this crops up a lot and what is fox if not other wildlife? Pest seems a favourite in the office at the moment, saves typing they took fox off mine at renewal and just put deer and pest control on all guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 I'd suggest Frenchies option is bonkers whereas mine i'm quite happy with, though thats actually my last cert the new one is similar. It puts the onus on me to decide what to shoot rather than try and get too complicated on conditions. Al4x mate, I'm not trying to cause any sorf of an argument (That is the last thing on my mind and I will not get drawn into one) but I plain and simply don't understand what you mean when you say "I'd suggest Frenchies option is bonkers". They seem to make pretty reasonable sense to me, and just like you they leave me with the decision making on what (legal) quarry I shoot without them having to type out every species that I would be allowed to shoot on my conditions with whatever rifle I was carrying, i.e. If I were out with the .243 for deer (In the daytime) and a fox came out then they option to shoot it is there straight away, or if I were out with the .222 and a Muntie showed itself within sensible range while I had the .222 (Not that I have any munties around my area) I know that I could legally take the shot without having to worry about Munties not being specifically mentioned on my ticket - They would fall within the AOLQ. It makes good sense to me mate unless I am seeing things differently to you! Maybe you could enlarge on what you mean please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 It's so long winded its almost ridiculous, they are trying to restrict you but you have asked for an exception so they tried to do it in as restrictive a way as possible, adding yet another line to your fac. Herts just say these guns shall be used for xyz and leave the rest to the person they deem responsible enough to grant a fac to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 It's so long winded its almost ridiculous, they are trying to restrict you but you have asked for an exception so they tried to do it in as restrictive a way as possible, adding yet another line to your fac. Herts just say these guns shall be used for xyz and leave the rest to the person they deem responsible enough to grant a fac to I see what you mean now al4x, yes it may be a little long winded, I guess it is just an a**e covering exercise on their part. Even so the way that I see it at least I don not have any or the silly restrictions that many have. Thanks for your explanation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark@mbb Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 From what I can understand if the authorising firearms dept choose to put AOLQ on your fac that covers any eventuality that you are likely to come across whether it be a wild boar or a red stag or a mountain goat your are covered and able to shoot it if you wish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 There may be some debate in some quarters that fox isn't Vermin, but from what I see yours says Pest Control, and there isn't much debate the fox is a pest! You have the term, Other Wildlife as well at the end of 7, this crops up a lot and what is fox if not other wildlife? 7 is irrelevant, as Charliet says its 5 that matters, that covers you for everything except deer Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 7 is irrelevant, as Charliet says its 5 that matters, that covers you for everything except deer Colin 5 qualifies what he can shoot. 7 Isn't irrelevant, it confirms what he can shoot with Expanding ammo, it includes "other Wildlife" which is Fox. It would be daft in many people eyes to be able to shoot fox, but only with SOLID ammo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 ok its irrelevant in terms of what he can shoot as if its not listed in 5 you can't shoot things listed in 7 Fox's are listed under pests that is fact with Colins license as it comes out of the same office as mine which most recently reads Pest control and Deer stalking, that includes foxes so doesn't matter about 7 that is just the expanding ammo blanket condition. If deer were on there then there is an additional line allowing the lawful shooting of deer under the ammo conditions as well as in number 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.