Buying an Air rifle moderator (a recent experience)

[TaxiDriver]

I was recently near a local airgun specialist and decided to make a detour to call in and see if they had a specific moderator for my BSA R10 MkII,

As luck would have it, They did

 

I then realised I'd spent more money down at the Camping place than I'd intended and so was short of the full amount needed for the moderator, genious idea, phone my son at home, get him to give the guy in the shop my visa card number as I'd left my wallet on my desk ? Alright, says the guy in the shop

Then the guy in the shop asks me if I've got any photo ID, saying I need to have photo ID to buy a sound moderator (Didn't mention anything about the card transaction)

upshot was, I didn't have ID as I didn't have my wallet and he refused to sell me the moderator.

 

Called them today, told them I'd be down later to purchase said moderator and would bring my FAC

30 mins later I walk in the shop, laid my FAC on the counter and asked for said moderator, Chap in shop didnt even take more than a glance at my certificate laid on the counter and gives me the moderator and says £40 then please, I pay, take the receipt Im handed, picked up my FAC and the moderator and walked out the shop.

 

Now Im slightly irritated for a couple of reasons,

Following the failed purchase the other day I checked with local gunshop who said,

"No, I didn't need Photo ID to buy a moderator, provided I clearly looked to be over 18"

Having made another trip especially to go back today taking my FAC, the guy didn't even look at my FAC let alone record any details of who they sold a moderator to

 

[subsonicnat]

Funny you should say that:

Had an MOT some years back, bloke said my reflector was not quite right, and could I go home and paint it with Womens nail varnish (Note I said womens not mine):

anyway, I said I would do it when I got home, he would not have it. So I went 20 mile round trip and did it..

when I got back to the garage I told him to go and have a look, No bother he said you must have done it: Grrrrrr.

I would not take NO for an answer, I made him look, even it meant failure of the ticket.Grrrrrrrrr.

I got my MOT ,ok.. but why did he not believe it was in my own interest to get it done: Well P---D off.

Edited April 4, 2013 by subsonicnat

[jamiedenny]

i didnt think sound mods had to be entered on the register, air rifles do.

bad staff training, i would always prefer someone to be consistent even if i didnt agree with them.

[mickmep]

my local rfd has to keep a log of moderators that are sold that are not on ticket.

[Dekers]

There is no legal requirement for any log or photo id to sell a non proofed new mod to anyone.

 

Your Mum could walk in and buy you a new centrefire mod perfectly legally.

 

What any RFD wants to do, or has been told to do by his region is another matter, it carries no force of law, but he is entitled to make up rules like this himself, and does not have to sell you a moderator (or anything else) if he decides not to!

[mickmep]

from what i've read of the acpo/gta guidance notes on the vcr act 2006 it is a legal requirement for rfd's to keep

a statutory firearm register, and according to section 15.1. Accessories in the form of, detachable, sound moderators (silencers),

must also be entered in the Register.

[Dougy]

Sorry but i wouldnt give him the drippings off my nose, let alone £40.

 

Simples, Oh ! and just to add he would have known why

 

mickmep.

a Mod for an air rifle is not a fire arm or part of, so not relevent. I can understand if the purchaser's Air Rifle was on ticket ie; fac

but there is no mention in the post so i "assume" it was not.

[mickmep]

Dougy

nothing to do with it being firearm or on ticket, i never said it was.

it is part of the vcr act.

[TaxiDriver]

Thank you for the responses folks,

 

My main irritation is the lack of consistancy,

having refused to sell it to to me one day for lack of having ID,

To then sell it me a couple of days later and Not record and details from, OR even look at my ID/Firearms certificate really rubs me up the wrong way.

 

I'd have bought it at my local RFD but they wanted another £12 more.

[GP1]

There is no legal requirement for any log or photo id to sell a non proofed new mod to anyone.

 

Your Mum could walk in and buy you a new centrefire mod perfectly legally.

 

What any RFD wants to do, or has been told to do by his region is another matter, it carries no force of law, but he is entitled to make up rules like this himself, and does not have to sell you a moderator (or anything else) if he decides not to!

Sorry for a little hi-jack TaxiDriver

Dekers could you enlighten me on the C/F mod as i am after some mods for my fac rifles, have seen a few for sale and the seller says its off ticket, so i buy one how do i enter it onto my ticket, i have asked my FEO who is looking into it for me as she unsure of the answer.

I was under the same impression as you, a mod is just a piece of metal untill its put on a firearm then it becomes part of your sec 1 firearm, so anyone can buy one up untill this, but all RFD's need some paper work ie: firearm register to enter the mod so their paper work adds up , just don't know where the line is between a T8 and a sak, one can be used on an air rifle and the other is a C/F mod. i've heard of people putting an air rifle mod onto a rimmy and writing a letter to the firearms dept with no problem, but with a T8 mod the FEO would like to know where it came from, if the person does not have it on his/her ticket where did they acquire it from.

Any help would be appreciated on this.

[Dekers]

Sorry for a little hi-jack TaxiDriver

Dekers could you enlighten me on the C/F mod as i am after some mods for my fac rifles, have seen a few for sale and the seller says its off ticket, so i buy one how do i enter it onto my ticket, i have asked my FEO who is looking into it for me as she unsure of the answer.

I was under the same impression as you, a mod is just a piece of metal untill its put on a firearm then it becomes part of your sec 1 firearm, so anyone can buy one up untill this, but all RFD's need some paper work ie: firearm register to enter the mod so their paper work adds up , just don't know where the line is between a T8 and a sak, one can be used on an air rifle and the other is a C/F mod. i've heard of people putting an air rifle mod onto a rimmy and writing a letter to the firearms dept with no problem, but with a T8 mod the FEO would like to know where it came from, if the person does not have it on his/her ticket where did they acquire it from.

Any help would be appreciated on this.

 

There isn't a line between a T8 and a SAK IF the Moderator is NEW and Unproofed it is simply a bit of metalwork and plastic.

 

Anyone can buy it.

 

If it is proofed or used, it is a firearm and you need the right paperwork to buy it. If you intend to put it on a FAC rifle you need a slot and have to advise your region you have done so, it is then a firearm.

 

It is not unknown for people to make their own, so simply advise your region you bought an off ticket mod and ask them to enter it on your FAC, I haven't done it with a cf mod but I have with 3 for my rimfires, not a problem!

 

Ask yourself why a FEO would want to know where you got it from any more than a rimfire mod, they don't is the answer, just what is the difference between a mod fitted to a rimfire and one fitted to a centrefire, and the Whisper can be used on a Hornet (centrefire) as well as a Rimfire, so where is the problem?

Edited April 5, 2013 by Dekers

[GP1]

Cheers Dekers, i think its my FEO not knowing the answer that made it confusing, will phone on Monday and see if she comes up with the same answer.

[dadioles]

Another reason not to have too much detail about your moderator entered on your firearms certificate.

Makers name - unknown

Identification Number - no number

[JonathanL]

There is no legal requirement for any log or photo id to sell a non proofed new mod to anyone.

 

Rubbish!

 

Your Mum could walk in and buy you a new centrefire mod perfectly legally.

 

Yes, if she had an FAC with an authority for such on it.

 

What any RFD wants to do, or has been told to do by his region is another matter, it carries no force of law, but he is entitled to make up rules like this himself, and does not have to sell you a moderator (or anything else) if he decides not to!

 

A moderator is a firearm by virtue of section 57 of the 1968 Act. Whether it goes on certificate or not is not within the discretion of individual RFD's. Also, the fact that it is prooved or unproved is neither here nor there.

 

J.

Edited April 7, 2013 by JonathanL

[JonathanL]

 

from what i've read of the acpo/gta guidance notes on the vcr act 2006 it is a legal requirement for rfd's to keep

a statutory firearm register, and according to section 15.1. Accessories in the form of, detachable, sound moderators (silencers),

must also be entered in the Register.

 

RFD's have always had to keep records of transactions in firearms.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

There isn't a line between a T8 and a SAK IF the Moderator is NEW and Unproofed it is simply a bit of metalwork and plastic.

 

Nope. Please don't follow this adice as it's wrong.

 

Anyone can buy it.

 

Rubish.

 

If it is proofed or used, it is a firearm and you need the right paperwork to buy it. If you intend to put it on a FAC rifle you need a slot and have to advise your region you have done so, it is then a firearm.

 

The fact that it is proved, or used, or not, makes no difference as to whether, legally, it is a firearm or not.

 

It is not unknown for people to make their own, so simply advise your region you bought an off ticket mod and ask them to enter it on your FAC, I haven't done it with a cf mod but I have with 3 for my rimfires, not a problem!

 

Hmmm: advice that you should lie to your licesning department after having done something perfectly legal. I smell buffalo excrement! Presumably then you would have no problem should someone let your licensing department know that you have lied to them on multiple occasions?

 

Ask yourself why a FEO would want to know where you got it from any more than a rimfire mod, they don't is the answer, just what is the difference between a mod fitted to a rimfire and one fitted to a centrefire, and the Whisper can be used on a Hornet (centrefire) as well as a Rimfire, so where is the problem?

 

Please don't follow Decker's 'advice'...please!

 

Surely, in true PW tradition, this thread is in line for being locked owing to some seriously suspect legal 'advice' being given?

 

J.

Edited April 7, 2013 by JonathanL

[Dekers]

Were you actually born this way or did you have to work at it?

 

Welcome back J. you have been missed!

[JonathanL]

Were you actually born this way or did you have to work at it?

 

Welcome back J. you have been missed!

 

Cheers but I've only not posted for a day or so - nice to know (or perhaps not) that I'm so missed!

 

I don't see your problem. If anything I've said is wrong then please point it out.

 

J.

[Dekers]

Cheers but I've only not posted for a day or so - nice to know (or perhaps not) that I'm so missed!

 

I don't see your problem. If anything I've said is wrong then please point it out.

 

J.

 

Start at the top and work down!

 

I have no intention of wasting my time with you, the next 10 pages are yours!

[JonathanL]

Start at the top and work down!

 

I have no intention of wasting my time with you, the next 10 pages are yours!

 

Sorry but if you place posts on public forums which advise people to break the law then don't behave like a child when called out on it. Please have the courtesy not to get all arrogant and self important about it.

 

If anything I have said about your posts is incorrect then feel free to point it out. You won't, of course, because it's not.

 

Are you, along with the owners of this site, willing to stand behind your advice on how to break the law? If you don't feel that you have an answer which doesn't involve a withering put-down then please don't bother.

 

J.

 

Edit: Have you told your licensing department that you have lied to them on three occasions?

Edited April 7, 2013 by JonathanL

[Dekers]

Sorry but if you place posts on public forums which advise people to break the law then don't behave like a child when called out on it. Please have the courtesy not to get all arrogant and self important about it.

 

If anything I have said about your posts is incorrect then feel free to point it out. You won't, of course, because it's not.

 

Are you, along with the owners of this site, willing to stand behind your advice on how to break the law? If you don't feel that you have an answer which doesn't involve a withering put-down then please don't bother.

 

J.

 

Start at the top and work down!

 

I have no intention of wasting my time with you, and you have made a very serious and false claim that I have lied to my region, feel free to repeat that to my face any time you like. READ my post.

 

The next 9 pages are yours!

Edited April 7, 2013 by Dekers

[JonathanL]

Start at the top and work down!

 

I have no intention of wasting my time with you, and I am not telling anyone how to break the law.

 

The next 9 pages are yours!

 

Well, yes, you've just told the world how you have already broken the law on at least three occasions.

 

Please, anyone reading 'advice' by Deckers....don't follow it. He's talking gonads.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Start at the top and work down!

 

I have no intention of wasting my time with you, and I am not telling anyone how to break the law.

 

The next 9 pages are yours!

 

Have you told your licensing department that you have lied to them on three occasions?

 

A simple yes or no will suffice?

 

If not then shall I?

 

J.

[bruno22rf]

Not sure how popular "grassing up" a fellow PW member would make you? Might be an interesting experiment-but would guess a lonely one

[guinty1]

Sound Moderators
13.71 Sound moderators are subject to
certificate control as “items designed to
reduce the noise or flash of a firearm”. Sound
moderators for .22 rimfire rifles are often
used for shooting game or vermin, and in the
case of the latter might facilitate more
effective pest control. Sound moderators for
full-bore rifles are of questionable
effectiveness in reducing disturbance to quarry
but can confuse them by diffusing the
directional report of a rifle. They may though
be appropriate for reducing hearing damage
to the shooter, or to reduce noise nuisance,
for example for deer control in urban parks.
The applicant will be expected to demonstrate
a “good reason” for noise reduction before
authority is granted. It should be noted that
sound moderators on air weapons or section
2 shot guns are not considered to be
component parts. Chief officers of police
should also be aware of the case of Broome v
Walter (1989) where it was found that an
integral sound moderator, that is one that
is part of the firearm, does not require
separate authorisation.
This is taken from the Home Office, Firearms Law Guidance to police 2002

And below is taken from 1968 firearms act.

57 Interpretation.

(1)In this Act, the expression “firearm” means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes—

a, any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal weapon as aforesaid or not; and

 

b, any component part of such a lethal or prohibited weapon; and

 

c, any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon;

 

and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of, and accessories to, firearms of that description.

Edited April 7, 2013 by guinty1