Bloody big Woodies !!!!

[Danoi99]

I love to go pigeon shooting with my shotgun. But what gets me is that there are some absolutely huge woodies that sit on my fence in the back garden.

 

I can shoot them safely ( my neighbour wants them gone, and it would be a safe shot angle wise ).

 

My only problem is the lack of an Air-Rifle................but I do have a HW45 Pistol that is accurate and hits hard ( .177 )

 

Is it considered not the done thing to shoot a pigeon with an Air-Pistol ? I can hit an extra strong mint at the distance I am planning to whack the cereal killers from !! So I think a head shot would work !!

 

What say you all??

 

And don't start slagging me off for asking !! I am seeking advice.............I haven't done it yet !!!!

 

I'm quite sure the old HW45 has enough clout...........................at the range I am gonna shoot ( 10-12M ) it consistently pierces both sides of an empty dog food tin, so I imagine it will tear through a pigeons noggin with ease !!

 

I await your helpful responses !!!!

 

ps. Please don't bombard me with all the legal jargon !! I know it already !! I live way out in the sticks, so there's no little kiddies eyes to be shot out etc !!

[aga man]

although i'm no expert on airguns i am pretty sure the gun you mention is around 5ft lbs of power. a legal limit air rifle close to 12ft lbs would require a head/neck shot to be humane. i would therefore say it is in humane to shoot them with the air pistol.

each to there own but personally i leave the woodies alone in the garden, i can't honestly see them been too much of a pest in the garden.

 

atb aga man.

[chrisjpainter]

personally? I wouldn't. Aga man's right, all pistols must be below the legal limit of 6ft/lbs, which makes them great for target work and fine for finishing SMALL vermin off from point blank range, but when it comes to a proper kill, it'd be a proper air rifle every time. The danger of public forums is that any nutter could be reading it and if I start saying it's okay to use a pistol in this situation, then someone's going to read that and start injuring stuff just because he read it on a forum. That's the greater liability.

 

so, no. in my opinion, it's not the done thing! If they really do need to be taken out, get a mate with an air rifle to either lend you it or do it yourself.

Edited June 25, 2013 by chrisjpainter

[kyska]

although i'm no expert on airguns i am pretty sure the gun you mention is around 5ft lbs of power. a legal limit air rifle close to 12ft lbs would require a head/neck shot to be humane. i would therefore say it is in humane to shoot them with the air pistol.

each to there own but personally i leave the woodies alone in the garden, i can't honestly see them been too much of a pest in the garden.

 

atb aga man.

 

I also think that, I think that you are pushing and stretching the spirit of the GL, lots.

[Underdog]

Sounds like you have a good HW45, my recent one was poo!

 

Anyway I don't recomend it. You may pull it off and if you do take my advice,,,,,keep it under your hat.

 

We have loads of woodies around our village and nowt much is said at me plonking them but,,,, I do it discreetly!

 

U.

[neillfrbs]

not enough power there mate .

[fenboy]

You say you know all the legal jargon , so therefore you should know that its illegal to shoot pigeon in your garden without good reason , the fact they sit on your fence and your neighbor wants them gone will not be good reason in the eyes of the law.

 

Even if you did have good reason then a air pistol is not the tool for the job , no legal limit air pistol "hits hard"

[stubby]

 

 

ps. Please don't bombard me with all the legal jargon !! I know it already !!

which is why your asking on a forum

 

as fenboy has pointed out, unless you can PROVE every non lethal method to remove them has failed, then you could still be fined/taken to court etc, just because it's on the pest list, does to make it legal, but then you know that already

[Underdog]

So just how else would one go about getting rid?

 

There are gardens and then there are gardens!

 

U.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Underdog

[stubby]

So just how else would one go about getting rid?

 

There are gardens and then there are gardens!

 

U.

you wouldn't.....

do people get rid of sparrows,blackbirds,the tit family etc etc

the wood pigeon is no different from them, has exactly the same laws protecting it,

if people are placing food on a bird table, they cannot choose what can feed there,

if it's just a case of them sitting on a fence, a few strands of wire/fishing line run along the top will discourage birds from perching, and be near on invisible to the eye

 

its if they are causing a health hazard or risk to public safety that they can be culled, again though, only after all non lethal methods are exhausted

if you check out the law, you'll find they can be culled for field protection, but not for sport

[Underdog]

you wouldn't.....

do people get rid of sparrows,blackbirds,the tit family etc etc

the wood pigeon is no different from them, has exactly the same laws protecting it,

if people are placing food on a bird table, they cannot choose what can feed there,

if it's just a case of them sitting on a fence, a few strands of wire/fishing line run along the top will discourage birds from perching, and be near on invisible to the eye

 

its if they are causing a health hazard or risk to public safety that they can be culled, again though, only after all non lethal methods are exhausted

if you check out the law, you'll find they can be culled for field protection, but not for sport

So lets get this straight, your saying that the wood pidgeon is the same as a blackbird and tit, I never noticed blackbird and the tits on the general licence!

 

And if they are chomping on your prize winning lettuces, what then??

 

And your saying the thousands of pigeon shooters don't actually enjoy it and find it a disgusting chore and there is absolutly nothing sporting about a fast pigeon and when I was out and took a few on the wind Sunday for absolutly the pleasure of it I was an outlaw and should be prosecuted asap?

 

What a crock,,,, rats under the shed,,, supposed I have to get a piper in for them do I!

 

U.

[stubby]

see, again people believing what they want to be true, rather than what is actually true

all animal,birds etc in this country are protected, end of

its just some are on the ""pest list"

try looking up what the word and where it comes from, PEST

meaning;living in close proximity to man

 

Im not saying shooters cant enjoy it, again your reading what you want to see, not what is actually written, I won't bother explaining again, as if you cant understand the first time, you never will, does not make you a bad person, but understanding stuff can make you look a better person

 

as for chomping on the prize lettuce's, well show us a gardener in the uk that does not have plastic bags or other scarer's tied around his allotment, to try and keep the birds at bay, if he aint, well he's just as dumb as ....

[Underdog]

Pigeons learn to ignor scarers sir and the day I am forced to join the pedantic club and worry about looking like a better person I will shoot myself let alone wood pigeons!

I know scores of alotment users that have an airgun with them!

Do really expect me to live my life according to your interpratations. And you are whome again?

 

To assume on the op's circumstances and garden is foolish.

 

U.

[kyska]

Pigeons learn to ignor scarers sir and the day I am forced to join the pedantic club and worry about looking like a better person I will shoot myself let alone wood pigeons!

I know scores of alotment users that have an airgun with them!

Do really expect me to live my life according to your interpratations. And you are whome again?

 

To assume on the op's circumstances and garden is foolish.

 

U.

 

This is taken from another site, where this is argued to death. This is a reply from BASC, on their official interpretation of the GL.

 

Pigeon are protected, like any bird, but can be killed if you satisfy the terms of the GL, pigeon eating your lettuces would not cut the mustard.

 

Stubby's 'interpretations' are correct.

 

The licences are clear in their terms and conditions however I will concentrate on English licences for this example and specifically use the basic crop protection licence (England) - http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Ima...tcm6-24149.pdf

Firstly it is important to remember that all of the licences are for “authorised persons” only and they are defined in the licence (Part 13 in the above link).

 

The licences all list permitted species to be taken and the methods which are allowed.

 

Then it has conditions which must be met.

 

Specifically around wood pigeon and the licence linked above - the licence says: “In respect to the species listed at paragraph 2(i)(a) above, this licence can only be relied on in circumstances where the authorised person is satisfied that appropriate legal methods of resolving the problem such as scaring and proofing are either ineffective or impracticable (see note o).

 

Note O says: “Condition 3 of this licence – which requires users to satisfy themselves that other appropriate legal methods of resolving the problem are either ineffective or impracticable - only applies to bird species that Natural England considers to be native to Great Britain (these are listed at paragraph 2(i)(a)); it does not apply to non-native species (listed at paragraphs 2(i)(b)). People may use non-lethal methods, such as scaring and proofing, for non-natives and are encouraged to do so where this is the best solution to a problem, but these methods do not need to be shown to be ineffective or impracticable before this licence can be relied upon.”

 

This means that you should not instantly resort to the methods allowed to control the listed species unless you are satisfied that other methods could not be applied. For instance the RSPCA run animal welfare cases against people who have shot pigeons in their back garden because they didn’t or were alleged not to have complied with the licence. In other words and looking at the example licence I cite above, it would be hard to argue shooting a pigeon in your back garden to protect a vegetable patch which might be small enough to be netted easily by its owner. In the case of a wheat field it is impossible and prohibitively expensive to net a field so lethal control would be allowed.

 

In the case of other licences in the back garden such as under the “flora and fauna” protection licence; there is an allowance to kill certain species to protect flora and fauna including the killing of magpies to protect nesting songbirds. It is of course hard to try other methods such as netting as it would prevent the adult birds feeding the young etc.

 

Any person wishing to benefit from the licences should read the licence in full and ensure they comply with everything before shooting or trapping etc. BASC’s page on licences is here - http://www.basc.org.uk/en/shooting/general-licences.cfm

[Underdog]

Thankyou.

We still can not assume the op has not pursued other methods of control.

What if numbers are such their defacation is the issue?

 

U.

[kyska]

Thankyou.

We still can not assume the op has not pursued other methods of control.

What if numbers are such their defacation is the issue?

 

U.

 

More importantly the only reason given to shoot them is because they sit on his fence, so your 'in bold' is academic.

 

It would be extremely hard to argue that a garden sized vegetable 'venture' would justify shooting the birds, not that I'm bothered, but I do know the RSPCA and the RSPB would try and prosecute.

 

Same with the birds crapping in your garden, so what? Cats do it, all other birds do it, foxes, rats, mice, vagrants and so on.

 

The justification of shooting birds for this reason is public health purposes, not personal health protection, again, in the spirit of the GL, this would apply to food processing plants, shopping centers etc, not ones back garden because you find a lump of guano on your BBQ.

 

IMO opinion, looking at the GL carefully, I think anyone would find any justification to shoot pigeon in a back garden, unless you are surrounded by the land that you normally control the birds on I guess.

 

Its taken very seriously, there was a case of a chap who had permission to cull seagulls, he shot one off his roof, which breached the conditions of the GL (and his particular allowance to control seagulls), he was properly done, given a huge fine and a suspended sentence.

[Underdog]

Hmmmm.

Thankyou for your input.

 

U.

[kyska]

Hmmmm.

Thankyou for your input.

 

U.

 

I don't know if there is a hint of sarcasm in there, either way, you're welcome.

[stubby]

Pigeons learn to ignor scarers sir and the day I am forced to join the pedantic club and worry about looking like a better person I will shoot myself let alone wood pigeons!

I know scores of alotment users that have an airgun with them!

Do really expect me to live my life according to your interpratations. And you are whome again?

 

To assume on the op's circumstances and garden is foolish.

 

U.

I don't expect anything from you, I simply pointed out the LAW IN THIS COUNTRY, how you interpret it is down to you, but having the attitude of I'll believe what I want to be true, and everyone else does it, so I will too, is what fuels the anti's fight to get guns banned for all of us.

and you are whom again???

 

funny how all I receive from you on my posts is knock backs, because your such a great shooter and know better than anyone, yet a quote post from BASC has you saying thank you

[Underdog]

I don't know if there is a hint of sarcasm in there, either way, you're welcome.

No sarcasm at all.

 

Stubby. The subject is interesting. Keeping it factual is key. Making it personal is cause for irritation to me. I too can cause irritation and I am wrong to do that.

Telling someone directly they are doing wrong when one does not know all the facts is wrong in my opinion of which is of little if no value.

Discrestion. One may need to test a car engine by going over 60 briefly.

Should that be done in the high street? No. Out the way? You decide.

My apologies Stubby.

 

U.

[Underdog]

Stubby. I am just an average shot pal. Nowt special.

 

U.

[stubby]

 

Stubby. The subject is interesting. Keeping it factual is key. Making it personal is cause for irritation to me

My apologies Stubby.

 

U.

 

 

you wouldn't.....

do people get rid of sparrows,blackbirds,the tit family etc etc

the wood pigeon is no different from them, has exactly the same laws protecting it,

if people are placing food on a bird table, they cannot choose what can feed there,

if it's just a case of them sitting on a fence, a few strands of wire/fishing line run along the top will discourage birds from perching, and be near on invisible to the eye

 

its if they are causing a health hazard or risk to public safety that they can be culled, again though, only after all non lethal methods are exhausted

if you check out the law, you'll find they can be culled for field protection, but not for sport

thank you for the apology, you'll notice though there was nothing in my first reply to you that made it personal, it was your reply to my above post refuting what I had written that started the "personal" replies

maybe in future read post's twice before hitting the reply button

[Underdog]

Ahhr I see now. I thought when you said"you wouldnt" you were telling me what to do lol.

I see the law enforcing common sense and part of that is all creatures are protected from unnesersary cruelty.

As mentioned. There are gardens and Gardens!

 

U:-)

[mickyh]

On the subject of power,before the 12 lb law came in, the government boffins worked out it only takes 3lb to enter a rabbits skull and cleanly kill.they then gave us the 12lb legal limit.

I dont know at what range the pellet dropped to 3lb.

But with headshots,it doesnt take much power to kill small Game.

[chrisjpainter]

On the subject of power,before the 12 lb law came in, the government boffins worked out it only takes 3lb to enter a rabbits skull and cleanly kill.they then gave us the 12lb legal limit.

I dont know at what range the pellet dropped to 3lb.

But with headshots,it doesnt take much power to kill small Game.

true, but when your gun starts at 6ft/lb at the muzzle, you have a MASSIVELY reduced guaranteed effective power range.as far as i'm concerned, there's no such thing as overkill. IF the job needs doing, then do it properly.