Mr Majyk Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 whilst wondering around on the bay of e looking at things i cant afford i found it was worryingly easy to buy sulphur, potassium nitrate & carbon with a few clicks of the mouse, gold star to anyone who can guess what those three things make anyways, simple question, is it legal to buy them and mix your own powder for black powder firearms? if im correct its perfectly legal to buy those three ingredients and your all above board, the second you mix them together your breaking the law, unless that is, you have the right licence but is it ok to buy those three and mix them for your black powder pistols, rifles etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 That is a good question mate and to be honest I do not have the answer, but would be very interested in the forum consensus. I do have a BP licence and have started to get right into my muzzle loading shooting, so all info would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Not sure on the legality of it. But there was a thing on it on TV, possibly 'How it's made' they tried to make gun powder out of the raw material and it took them a while to get anything close to the real stuff, and the stuff they had wasn't great. I expect the episode is on youtube somewhere. I would guess it is illegal to have the black powder after it is mixed together, but I doubt much would happen unless you had a few barrels of it, say under the houses of parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 I too have an explosives certificate and far as im aware the moment you mix all three components together you would be in illegal possesion of black powder.Despite it being very old it is still volatile. I too watched the Mythbusters episode where they made their own which wasnt very sucessfull considering how basic the ingredients are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 We have tried it and all the old muzzle loaders used to make their own years ago but the powder is weak compared to the shop bought stuff. Its something to do with it not being granulated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Just mixing the ingredients is not enough. The mix has to be incorporated by grinding with BRASS rollers. This can take up to four day, yes, four days. The finely ground mix is then compressed into 'cake' in a press exerting many tonnes pressure. The cake is then broken and the grains graded. A final glaze is added by tumbling in graphite. Much easier to buy a 20 lb paper bag of finest German gunpowder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe soapy Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Drove through a small town in France some years ago that made powder,the explosion at the factory left most houses badly damaged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alendil Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 all ingredients are mix in ball mill Just mixing the ingredients is not enough. The mix has to be incorporated by grinding with BRASS rollers. This can take up to four day, yes, four days. The finely ground mix is then compressed into 'cake' in a press exerting many tonnes pressure. The cake is then broken and the grains graded. A final glaze is added by tumbling in graphite.Much easier to buy a 20 lb paper bag of finest German gunpowder! i was told its not added graphite just proces is cold graphiting. it is tumbled in big drum lined with leather to polish grains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 all ingredients are mix in ball mill i was told its not added graphite just proces is cold graphiting. it is tumbled in big drum lined with leather to polish grains. Ain't that what I said? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtaylor Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Mythbusters, that was it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Majyk Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) ok so mixing powder probably isnt worth the hassle, but could be fun for a homeloading experiment? how bout the relevant licence? do you specifically need a black powder licence? ive got section 1 & 2 and do homeloading. would that cover it legally speaking? Also i am considering adding a black powder pistol to my licence Edited July 6, 2013 by Mr Majyk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 (edited) Nope. You need a Blackpowder licence to acquire/keep it. Your premises will be inspected and you will need a special box to contain it. Edited July 6, 2013 by Floating Chamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Majyk Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 well that solves that then doesnt it i do find odd that were allowed to have shop bought "propellant" for homeloading though. one of those annoying grey areas in the law? will have to apply for black powder licence at some point in the future, ive had a blat on a few powder pistols in the past and found it very enjoyable, it also appeals to my love of tweaking loads to achieve as much accuracy as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 it also appeals to my love of tweaking loads to achieve as much accuracy as possible. You will be kept happy for years in that case. Actually, you don't need to get a black powder licence. Triple7, although dearer is licence free and I would say better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 well that solves that then doesnt it i do find odd that were allowed to have shop bought "propellant" for homeloading though. one of those annoying grey areas in the law? will have to apply for black powder licence at some point in the future, ive had a blat on a few powder pistols in the past and found it very enjoyable, it also appeals to my love of tweaking loads to achieve as much accuracy as possible. Its because reloading powders are a propellant while black powder is still legally classed as an explosive.The certificate curiously is free! I made my wooden storage box (it has to be wood) and licensing were happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Majyk Posted July 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 next question, what about storage of black powder weapons? i presume its the same as section 1/2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 next question, what about storage of black powder weapons? i presume its the same as section 1/2? Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 You can make up to 100 grms for your own use/experimentation but you will need an aquire and keep ticket and storage box, There is a thread on a pyrotechnic forum about it. http://www.pyrosociety.org.uk/forum/topic/3694-confusion-of-laws/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Majyk Posted July 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 You can make up to 100 grms for your own use/experimentation but you will need an aquire and keep ticket and storage box, There is a thread on a pyrotechnic forum about it. http://www.pyrosociety.org.uk/forum/topic/3694-confusion-of-laws/ awesomes, i shall have a look into it at some point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 You can make up to 100 grms for your own use/experimentation but you will need an aquire and keep ticket and storage box, There is a thread on a pyrotechnic forum about it. http://www.pyrosociety.org.uk/forum/topic/3694-confusion-of-laws/ I'm assuming that '100 grams' clause is to allow people to posses fireworks etc? Usually, to be in possession of black powder you need the explosives cert. - but once you have that, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be allowed to make your own, up to the prescribed storage limits. With a Section 1 ticket, you're entitled to manufacture, import and buy any (S1) firearm or ammunition you have the appropriate free slot for. You just can't sell them on unless they've been proofed etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 To make anymore than 100grms in one go and for practical use you need an Explosives manufacturing licence . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney86 Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 I'm assuming that '100 grams' clause is to allow people to posses fireworks etc? A long time ago (10, 15 years) I was into pyrotechnics, the law at the time, as I remember it was that you were allowed "a small amount" for immediate use without a license. There was a push to clarify this law, which I'd guess is where the 100g comes from. I haven't seen the mythbusters episode, but making the stuff was fairly trivial with the right kit (eg ball mill with brass/lead milling media - steel creates sparks!). Certainly good enough to send fireworks a long way up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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