ww2 rifle range

[simon6ppc]

hi guys some times folk put pictures on here not to do with shooting,i suppose i am now in a way but just thought ide share this with you all some history on our grouse moor where we have our shoot,its a rifle range from ww2 where the soldiers used to practise. as a child i used to go up and i could never find the bullets but as the years have gone by the peat has washed away and you can now see hundreds of them,when i weighed them they where around the 190 grain mark,with some bigger ones around 3 or 400 grains as they are damaged so its not just 100 percent the weight,when you look at the moor you can see where the pop up targets have been and the ground behind the targets has been shot away,i some times stand there and can imagine how many thousands of rounds must have been fired to put such big grooves in to the moor,ime sorry if this post is abit boring but i think to some it should be intresting as ime some times a bit sad when it comes to history especially ww2 stuff, and with the weather being craap ive had nothing else to do ha ha,the first picture is of a post at the side off the targets, which must of been shot to bits with some bad shots and the second behind the targets with all the 303 bullets i think coming through the peat with the years gone by,hope you have all enjoyed my little history lesson as i will all ways enjoy going up there till the day i die,also its funny how life turns out as where i used to love going as a child 40 years down the line my best mate bought it and i am now in charge of the shooting on it and just around the corner on the same moor is my rifle range where i have zeroed my guns for the last 20 years so that poor moor has had some lead shot in it over the last decade,thats the picture on my profile picture,cheers simon...

Edited September 16, 2013 by simon6ppc

[la bala]

interesting read.

[Gunnerbob]

Far from boring simon6ppc, there is a lot of ww2 sites that have been left to nature and it is always thought invoking to stand quietly and imagine 70 years ago. In my neck of the woods we have many old airfields, some RAF but mostly US 8th Army Air force. One in particular has old Nissan huts still standing, swallowed up by vegetation and trees now, there is also a fair bit of peri track and even runway left.

On a quiet summer's evening I would sit on my motorbike at the end of the runway and imagine those young lads in those mighty B.17's...we owe them all a lot. Good post simon6ppc, I'll try and get some pics..

[simon6ppc]

ye cheers guys i find all ww2 stuff very intresting,the spitfire dont even get me started, on another moor on the other side of the valley we have the remains of a p51 fighter that crashed in fog one night, ive spent some time up there as well looking at the aluminium remains and have talked to folk who see it just after it crashed, its where my best friend was a game keeper on the moor and we have shot foxes there for years and every week we drove past it i would never shut up about it, i could go on forever,we should turn this thread into photos where we all shoot if there are any remains from ww2 ha ha,ime looking forward to seeing any pictures cheers simon....

[simon6ppc]

that is the actual p51, it was flown by a polish pilot and ime 99 percent that he is buried at blackpool , i found the fuel cap years ago and more bits and bobs of the engine and canopy but my mother through them away thinking they where scarp metal when you look over the valley i can see the line he must have taken as all of a sudden this big hump of moor is sticking up and thats what he hit and the plane landed a few hundred yards behind, i said don't get me started about this subject i can go on forever ha ha

Edited September 17, 2013 by simon6ppc

[nickson71]

what area of lancashire is the plane crash just out of interest

[BRNDL]

There is also some good war history in the hills of rivington. One that springs to mind is the death of 2 flying a Lancaster bomber over lead mines clough. Caught in low fog and crashed upon the moor.

[simon6ppc]

what area of lancashire is the plane crash just out of interest

in darwen pal,,,,,

[simon6ppc]

There is also some good war history in the hills of rivington. One that springs to mind is the death of 2 flying a Lancaster bomber over lead mines clough. Caught in low fog and crashed upon the moor.

must of been bad news that fog BRNDL as they didn't have the technology that we have today , sounds like a lot lost there lives through it, a friend of mine said that his friend hid the 50 cal guns of that p51 in the heather just after the crash, but the army went up and recovered them not long after,

[nickson71]

in darwen pal,,,,,

 

I may have to go for a walk or two to see if I can find it would be interesting to find ..... and I'm in Darwen too

[paul99]

Several years ago I came across some old maps of the area 1940s / 50s and was astonished to see a rifle range marked on them not 500 yds from the house overlaying it on a modern OS map showed it to be the odd sandy cut out in the middle of a bank / hill above the town - which I always thought was an odd looking / out of place bit of ground fenced off for no apparent reason but it all now made sense - that's why the patch is soft and sandy and home to the only rabbit warren that I know of near home whilst the rest of the hill is red clay and rabbit-less.

 

Quite excited about piecing together what I thought was a long forgotten bit of local history I mentioned it to the old man and grandfather - both knew all about it. As per the OP the range was apparently used for training soldiers between the wars. My grandfather had even used it once or twice when it was run for a short time by the local gun club before closing - god knows why they never mentioned it before given my interest in history and shooting back then. It just goes to show how easily knowledge could have been lost had I not stumbled upon that old map as they likely would never have thought to mention it otherwise.

 

P.S. despite spending a bit of time looking I've never found any bullets there one day I'll make the short walk there with a metal detector as the ground is bound to me peppered

[BRNDL]

must of been bad news that fog BRNDL as they didn't have the technology that we have today , sounds like a lot lost there lives through it, a friend of mine said that his friend hid the 50 cal guns of that p51 in the heather just after the crash, but the army went up and recovered them not long after,

 

You should have a walk up there, its a fantastic spot. There is a stone memorial and a plaque explaining what happened. A further 100m or so towards Jepsons Gate is Pike stones. An old memorial ground like a tomb style. Again another plaque with explanation.

 

Certainly worth a wonder Simon.

[simon6ppc]

Several years ago I came across some old maps of the area 1940s / 50s and was astonished to see a rifle range marked on them not 500 yds from the house overlaying it on a modern OS map showed it to be the odd sandy cut out in the middle of a bank / hill above the town - which I always thought was an odd looking / out of place bit of ground fenced off for no apparent reason but it all now made sense - that's why the patch is soft and sandy and home to the only rabbit warren that I know of near home whilst the rest of the hill is red clay and rabbit-less.

 

Quite excited about piecing together what I thought was a long forgotten bit of local history I mentioned it to the old man and grandfather - both knew all about it. As per the OP the range was apparently used for training soldiers between the wars. My grandfather had even used it once or twice when it was run for a short time by the local gun club before closing - god knows why they never mentioned it before given my interest in history and shooting back then. It just goes to show how easily knowledge could have been lost had I not stumbled upon that old map as they likely would never have thought to mention it otherwise.

 

P.S. despite spending a bit of time looking I've never found any bullets there one day I'll make the short walk there with a metal detector as the ground is bound to me peppered

ye cheers pal,may be this on our moor was for training the same as i cant recall any army bases or any thing around my neck of the woods, i could be wrong though,as for the bullets years ago i could never find any but now there are hundreds as the rain seems to have washed the peat away,atb simon

 

You should have a walk up there, its a fantastic spot. There is a stone memorial and a plaque explaining what happened. A further 100m or so towards Jepsons Gate is Pike stones. An old memorial ground like a tomb style. Again another plaque with explanation.

 

Certainly worth a wonder Simon.

is it near that pigeon tower pal

[BRNDL]

No, it is near "view point" if you know where that is.

 

Past the yew tree inn so it is on your right - continue to follow the road between the two reservoirs - round the tight left hand bend - continue on to the fork in the road - bare left (straight ahead) - then sharp right up a steep hill - Pass view point in your left - continue to top of the hill and park on the right - dont turn left - In front of you is Jepsons Gate - Head down that track through forst gate on foot - First style on the left will lead you to Pike Stones - Continue on ( not over the style ) the single track and it falls off down hill to a gate. Through the gate to the stream. Take the gate on your left and walk up the hill/steps and you will see the memorial and plaque. Lovely view and a nice bench to sit on and take in the view.

 

Regards and hopefully you have a walk there one day,

 

BRNDL

[simon6ppc]

Cheer pal will plan that one day with my four legged friend.

[Malik]

Interesting read. Makes you wonder what it was like. Preparing for a war as big and as costly as ww2. They would of obviously known that they'd never see some of the people they were training with again once they were deployed.

[Lord Geordie]

Ross sands near Bamburgh was some practice place for bombs, missiles, artillery and rifles. There is still some infrastructure there. Old rail system and some old engines etc. We used to find 303 rounds, Mortars and shells. My friend once found a land mine. It's quite an interesting site. You can still see the bomb craters on google maps

[simon6ppc]

Ross sands near Bamburgh was some practice place for bombs, missiles, artillery and rifles. There is still some infrastructure there. Old rail system and some old engines etc. We used to find 303 rounds, Mortars and shells. My friend once found a land mine. It's quite an interesting site. You can still see the bomb craters on google maps

ye that sounds interesting as well,i always try to imagine what it was really like back then,also where we shoot pigeons is an old air field where the yanks were based in ww2, there is a pub next to it with all the war pictures in it,i want to go in there but this year has been good for the pigeons around our neck of the woods so we havn't had time to have a look but i will soon.,as said above i always sit in the hide and think about hundreds of bombers taking off as where we sit was the actual runway.it must of been an aw sum sound ...cheers simon

Edited September 18, 2013 by simon6ppc

[linny]

thanks for putting this on good to read

[thepasty]

Nice find and similar to what I've been looking at recently...

 

Both my mate and myself are big into war history so we started War Club, every couple of weeks we either sit down to identify ww1 ww2 and even civil war sites in our local area or go out and investigate said identified sites of interest.

 

Last week we checked out an old ww2 rifle range like yours that we had identified using old navigation charts, but the range we found wasnt used by the average soldier. Being out of the way in Cornwall this one was used by the SOE, Free French Raiders, Auxiliary Units (home guard invasion saboteurs) and towards the end of WW2 U.S special forces training for D Day.

 

Used by special forces (or the ww2 equivalent) we found all sorts of spent ammunition, casings, what looks like a dummy grenade and a few other bits and bobs.

 

Its very interesting investigating these sites, digging them and then investigating your finds.

 

Maybe theres more around your area worth a look?

Edited September 18, 2013 by thepasty

[simon6ppc]

thanks for all the replys,i think this the same could have been used by the home guard or that sort of thing, the farm it belongs to still has the stone built ammunition hut where they kept the amo,he told me they shot from 100 and 200 yard away,ime sure he also said a thousand yard point as well,but not just sure if thats true or not,i always find three types of bullet,one looks like a 303 which you can see in the picture,also an heavy 400 grain thing and you some times find like pointed triangle bullet lead heads hollow in side though ,if you look in the bottom right of the second picture theres one there gone white,cheers simon..

[simon6ppc]

this is the best one i could find years ago.i think a 303 bullet that weighs 190 grain,i like the rifling marks on it

[thepasty]

i did a little research when we found the same hollow points at the range we checked out, some rounds had an aluminium tip then lead behind in a jacket hence it rotting out over time.

 

we've found loads of bent and twisted hollow bullet casings.

 

we also found some heavy calibre rounds, sounds like the 400 grain you describe above, I had put these down as pistol or sub machine gun rounds but yet to get a proper ID.

Edited September 18, 2013 by thepasty

[simon6ppc]

ye they sound just the same type as on our range,the funny triangled pointed hollow ones i could never work out, as it just looked like an hollow tip.may be some one mite know on here hope fully,cheer simon

[channa]

.303 S.A Ball cordite MKIII round 215-grain bullet (13.9)g (Cordite is the powder used) these where hollow points and soft nosed deemed inhumane in 1899 so the remaining MK III IV and V rounds,over 45 million of them where used for target practice.

 

In 1910 the MK VII bullet 174-grain (11.3)gram Although this round appeared conventional the designers had filled the front third of the interior with aluminium or tenite (plastic) wood pulp instead of lead. Because of the heavier lead base the bullet on impact would yaw severely and deform. If you know ballistics you can imagine what damage it would do.

 

In 1938 the MKVIII was introduced caked up for range with the vickers machine gun.

 

Enfield Rifles will have been used these came in 30-06 and other big calibers but generally with bullet weights lighter than 200-grain.

 

Could be .50 cal bullets on the range if we had the yanks over on that range them bullets are around the 600-grain mark

 

The only thing with heavy bullets would be .5 vickers generally around the 500-grain mark. the .5v/580 (.5 inch vickers machine gun and 580 grain bullet)

 

Alot of these where experimental but some where used with incendiary rounds for blimps and the like...Some where used for Armour piercing

 

If you still have the 400-grain bullets simon id'e like to have a look and see if i can find out what it was fired from.