New firearms licensing forms to be introduced in December 2013

[Beardo]

11 November 2013

New forms simplifying the first steps of the shotgun and firearms application process will be introduced in England, Wales and Scotland from December 1st 2013.

Applicants for both shotgun and firearm certificates will be able to use a single form which will cover grants and renewals. There will be a short separate form for variations to a firearm certificate, which enable applicants to apply for different types of firearm. Firearm certificate holders will continue to be limited in the maximum amount of ammunition which they can legally possess. However, restrictions have been removed on how much ammunition can be bought at one time, provided maximum allowances are not exceeded.

The requirement for shotgun certificate applicants to provide a countersignatory from a limited range of professionally qualified people has been replaced with a simpler referee requirement. The referee may now be drawn from a wider pool. The police will then follow up the application with the normal background and security checks.

BASC’s senior firearms officer Mike Eveleigh said: “BASC has been working with the Home Office and the police for some time to modernise the initial application process. A sample of BASC members tested several variants of the new forms which helped greatly. The UK has some of the toughest gun laws in the world. Those laws must do two things; protect public safety and also allow the continued lawful use of firearms. These changes will remove several layers of unnecessary bureaucracy and make the initial form-filling simpler and easier to understand.”

The new forms will be introduced by police forces from the 1st December. Copies and advice on completing them can be found here.

taken from the BASC site

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Hoorah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Greymaster]

 

"The requirement for shotgun certificate applicants to provide a countersignatory from a limited range of professionally qualified people has been replaced with a simpler referee requirement. The referee may now be drawn from a wider pool."

 

 

I surmise this is now because, whereas historically membership of a professional body meant the police could look up the referee in their register of members to check bona fides, nowadays, everybody is on a database. Just a quick call to GCHQ tells them everything they want to know and more.

[mossy835]

well looking at the new forms,the old ones are better and easyer,thats what i think.on single forms.

[phaedra1106]

Indeed, just had a FAC variation done with Durham (and they managed to get it wrong, again), they also sent a nice note with it and a copy of the new form 202 saying it has to be used from Dec 1st, previously you could just email notification of a sale/transfer/variation then pop a written copy in with your FAC within 7 days.

 

The older system for variations was much simpler, with the new form 202 you have to print your name, add your signature and the date 4 times!.

Edited November 11, 2013 by phaedra1106

[mossy835]

they still have not got it right,to much form work, bring back the old days,

[VicW]

There is no reference to the ever increasing incidence of licensing authorities asking for medical references from your GP.

 

Vic.

[Kes]

There is no reference to the ever increasing incidence of licensing authorities asking for medical references from your GP.

 

Vic.

Any significant reduction in bureaucracy and leveling of the 'playing field' has to be welcomed but why more pain with variations and Vic's comment above is the biggest single issue - what does the new form say ?

Is it removed or required ? What has BASC to say about this 'trial', time it was 'culled'.

 

Comma added.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Kes

[phaedra1106]

The medical declaration is on page 2 of the new form 201, same as the existing FAC application, declare any medical problems and give permission to contact your GP.

 

The extra requirement that the applicant contact their GP and pay for the information that Durham and West Mercia/Warwickshire are insisting on is not required by firearms law or the Home Office guidelines. BASC are talking to Durham but that's all they have said.

 

And on Form 201 you have to print your name, sign and date it upto 11 times!!

Edited November 11, 2013 by phaedra1106

[David BASC]

Yes it should be 'culled' yes we have taken this up with the PCC in Durham, and we are looking at the legal position.

 

David

[Sprackles]

I note there is no provision as in the old forms not to declare convictions which occurred before the last renewal.

 

BASC advice form states.....

 

 

It is not sufficient to write “please see your records” or “as previous application.” There is no
need to give full details of each offence, just the date and type of offence is required

So it seems we have gone backwards in this respect and must again remember every little motoring offence et al for each renewal.

 

The Variation forms are also more paperwork than previously required.

All in all...........I prefer the existing set up.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Sprackles

[Beardo]

parking / fixed penalty motoring notices can still be ignored so there's no change there

[Alanl50]

well looking at the new forms,the old ones are better and easyer,thats what i think.on single forms.

+1

[Sprackles]

parking / fixed penalty motoring notices can still be ignored so there's no change there

No but on the old forms you only had to declare new convictions since last renewal, something BASC fought for a few years back and now we are back to square one

raking old coals every renewal.

 

I am surprised they didn't raise this issue again as to be honest I really cannot see how things have been simplified as to me there is now more form filling than before.

If BASC had a hand in this I think its a poor effort

.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Sprackles

[ordnance]

Will you be able to do variations the same as the BASC and others negotiated here. ?

 

The Justice (Northern Ireland) Act 2011

For some time a system has been in place to allow "one off - one on" exchanges of shotguns in Northern Ireland. From 1st December 2011 the system was extended to other firearms.

The exchange of rifles and pistols may only take place with registered firearms dealers (not between certificate holders) and firearms may only be exchanged for another of the "same calibre and type". Prohibited weapons are excluded from the provision. Transfers must be notified to PSNI within 72 hours by both the firearm certificate holder and Registered Firearms Dealer.

[mossy835]

as all ways a balls up.

[Sprackles]

I would like to know who was consulted about these new forms by BASC.

I recall a survey going out but at no time do I recall any mention of the proposals or a draft being offered for comments nor the final proposed version being offered for comments.

I know this may seem petty to some but I feel BASC has let us down on this issue as the forms are more complex and intrusive than the old system and cannot see how this can be marketed as an improvement over the old system.

If this is what I am paying my subs for then I will not be renewing them when my current membership lapses.

[David BASC]

It was on our wed site for ages, asking members and other shooters which set of forms they preferred....http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/simplify-firearms-licensing.cfm it was based on that feedback that our recommendations were made.

 

David

[Sprackles]

It was on our wed site for ages, asking members and other shooters which set of forms they preferred....http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/firearms/simplify-firearms-licensing.cfm it was based on that feedback that our recommendations were made.

 

David

Yes I saw those but took them for representative examples and voted accordingly.

I did not see any option to comment on their contents or express a no change required opinion.

 

This is the accompanying text.

 

 

The Home Office is proposing new licensing forms and two alternative design formats have been proposed. BASC is working with the Home Office and the police and your views are important in determining which format is adopted.

 

Please note that these are NOT the full forms, and must NOT be used for an application for a shotgun or firearm certificate.

 

Not much chance to really give our opinions overall on that is there.

 

The page is also titled Help to simplify firearms licensing.....bit of a misnomer that one after seeing the result.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Sprackles

[David BASC]

If members have problems with the forms, they call the BASC firearms team so we can advise the member accordingly.

 

The reasons for the signatures etc on each page is that the pages will now be printed separately, and can easily become separated. We challenged the need for a signature, but were over-ruled by the police and Home Office. We didn’t win everything, but we did improve the forms considerably.

 

In fact the law has ALWAYS demanded the full list of convictions; the wording on the old forms was incorrect. It works like this: The question was - “Have you been convicted of any offence (see notes at the end of this form) ?” If you tick “No” and you have been convicted in the past, you are lying. If you tick “yes” then you must give details. VERY bad wording.

 

The advice “On renewal details need only be given of convictions since the existing certificate was issued.” Contradicts the law, and the question itself.

 

The variation form is simpler than completing the whole Grant/Renewal/variation form , but if there are specific problems, we need to know – please tell us.

 

Here’s a list of some advantages:

 

1. No need to duplicate information every bit of personal information for coterminous applications. (ONE form instead of four)

2. No separate and confusing forms for referees to get lost or incorrectly completed – this speeds up processing

3. No requirement for the signature of an MP, Doctor, Minister of religion, Bank Official any more

4. Legal errors in previous forms corrected ( Convictions question for example)

5. Removal of “amount to purchase” from Firearm certificates

6. Requirement to notify the police of deactivation of ammunition removed.

7. Medical question narrowed down to conditions which would affect possession of guns rather than ANY medical condition to be declared

8. To save applicants money when printing forms, they are in black and white except for some red emphasis

9. Space to provide “good reason” of guns currently possessed included, to save the police and applicant having to complete extra forms for this

10. Correction of certain technical and legal aspects which were in error on the old certificates.

 

But as always we can’t please all the people all the time!!

 

David

[mossy835]

part g, page 11.i take it you dont have to fill this one in then,or have you.

[phaedra1106]

part g, page 11.i take it you dont have to fill this one in then,or have you.

Yes, but you can tick the "prefer not to say" boxes

[Sprackles]

If members have problems with the forms, they call the BASC firearms team so we can advise the member accordingly.

 

The reasons for the signatures etc on each page is that the pages will now be printed separately, and can easily become separated. We challenged the need for a signature, but were over-ruled by the police and Home Office. We didn’t win everything, but we did improve the forms considerably.

 

In fact the law has ALWAYS demanded the full list of convictions; the wording on the old forms was incorrect. It works like this: The question was - “Have you been convicted of any offence (see notes at the end of this form) ?” If you tick “No” and you have been convicted in the past, you are lying. If you tick “yes” then you must give details. VERY bad wording.

 

The advice “On renewal details need only be given of convictions since the existing certificate was issued.” Contradicts the law, and the question itself.

 

The variation form is simpler than completing the whole Grant/Renewal/variation form , but if there are specific problems, we need to know – please tell us.

 

Here’s a list of some advantages:

 

1. No need to duplicate information every bit of personal information for coterminous applications. (ONE form instead of four)

2. No separate and confusing forms for referees to get lost or incorrectly completed – this speeds up processing

3. No requirement for the signature of an MP, Doctor, Minister of religion, Bank Official any more

4. Legal errors in previous forms corrected ( Convictions question for example)

5. Removal of “amount to purchase” from Firearm certificates

6. Requirement to notify the police of deactivation of ammunition removed.

7. Medical question narrowed down to conditions which would affect possession of guns rather than ANY medical condition to be declared

8. To save applicants money when printing forms, they are in black and white except for some red emphasis

9. Space to provide “good reason” of guns currently possessed included, to save the police and applicant having to complete extra forms for this

10. Correction of certain technical and legal aspects which were in error on the old certificates.

 

But as always we can’t please all the people all the time!!

 

David

 

So then I take it medical conditions which were also declared years ago but are long in the past will have to be repeated ad infinitum also or is that not a legal requirement ?

To say that these legal errors were corrected...who wanted them corrected because that's how the forms were around 15 years ago until they changed to their current format.

I would also ask is it really a Legal requirement or just how the Home Office wants the forms and if it is a legal requirement..which part of legislation decrees so.

 

There has been no consultation or information distributed to the membership about these changes other than the sample forms and it seems to have been progressed on a "we Know Best" approach.

[David BASC]

Yes relevant medical conditions must be recorded, and why wouldn’t anyone want for questions on the forms to be legally correct?

 

 

The questions on the forms reflect clearly information required by the Chief Officer of police based on the legislation and the Home Office guidance for certification. Or do you think some questions on the forms are not needed?

 

 

David

[Sprackles]

What it boils down to as far as I can see is by making every one declare everything every renewal they are hoping some people would rather not go through with it and let people know whats gone on in their past.

A friend who was a shooting buddy a long time ago gave up for just that reason when his past was bandied around by someone who saw his forms and what he had put.

He never renewed again and gave up.

 

The Police are aware of any convictions at all times so repeating them ad nauseum is just an exercise to possibly bring about the scenario above IMHO.

Similarly a declaration of say depression, once investigated and cleared, why should it again be brought up at every renewal when it will already be on record.

There are some who will never apply for certificates not because they know they won't get them but because they do not want a long extinct past resurrected and others who will not renew when it becomes too much hassle to rake the old ground all over again.

 

For the record, I have just been granted FAC a few months ago so don't think I am referring to myself in these posts, I just object to things being made more awkward than they are already and these new forms no matter how you gloss them are not an improvement as a few comments from others on this thread have also stated.

 

Taken from the .gov.uk website Guidance on Firearms Licencing Law....

 

 

Application
10.8 Unless exempt from the certificate requirement, persons who wish to possess, purchase or acquire firearms or ammunition to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies should complete the prescribed application form (Form 101).The forms are currently being revised and this section will be updated in due course. By virtue of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exemptions) Order 1975, the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 do not apply to an application for the grant or renewal of a firearm certificate. An applicant is therefore not entitled to withhold information about any previous conviction, however old or minor (including motoring) offences, on the grounds that it is “spent” for other purposes. This includes convictions outside Great Britain, but see rule 3(1) of the Firearms Rules 1998. A conditional discharge and an absolute discharge both count as convictions for this purpose. Details of fixed penalty notices and parking offences do not need to be declared. If in doubt, it is better to disclose. On the application for a renewal only those convictions since the grant or last renewal need be detailed.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Sprackles