Footu Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Just had north Wales police chat about adding a variation. 243 for Fox. I asked basc for advice who gave me home office guidelines saying as I have shot quarry over one year with a. 22 the skills are transferable so no. 243 experience required just apply.get back to them if there are any problems. The police say although that is legally correct it's not best practice ,basc don't issue the license and although there should.be no problem they would.really like me to go out with someone for a couple of hours with their gun, shoot. 20 rounds or so and then get a covering letter saying I am competent and aware of backdrops etc. This they say is the same as getting a safety demo just like hiring a chainsaw. And if I add it to my application there should be no problem at all , but without it ' it's my bosses decision and I can't say how it might go and you haven't fired more than 200 rounds of. 22 in the field'I have fired over 3000 rounds on a range so personally o still think it's a lot of dead bunnies. I did ask a friend if he would do this but he said no, stick to basc guidelines. He was concerned that if there was a problem he might be liable in some way, the police say that is definatly not the case. The land I am applying for is currently used for pheasants so blasting 20 odd shells off is not a plan till February at least, if I can find someone to help with relevant calibre. I am about to go away for a couple of weeks so won't see replies to this for a while buy my questions are these: Can anyone help with this situation in the near future to get the final hoop jumped through and what would you do, smooth it through or dig heels in and apply without letter then refer to basc if it gets rejected? Many thanks Footu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandit Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 If all they want is 20 rounds and a letter I'd hang on for that. That said, if you can't shoot on your permission until February, where are you planning on shooting these foxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 When you say .22 do you mean R/F or C/F. If C/F I would dig my heels in. However, if R/F then I tend to think they have a point re lack of C/F experiance and I would do as they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footu Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Thanks for replies. Has all been rf so far and I am planning to go ahead as they suggested, just trying to sort out a.visit with someone and see what others would do. The foxes are there now, eating our birds! I'm just aware that thes are louds rounds so banging away to comply would scare them so I'll wait. I have a Syndicate perm over 6 farms For Fox so am trying to get everything in place for sport once.the season on birds is over. Then I can be of use to the farms and also put the Syndicate in better position next year. I know some would be happy to shoot the Fox now with a. 22 but the police have told me that's not on, correct calibre only. We also get told Fox is ok if safe to do so on shoot days, I've never seen that done or seen a Fox on a shoot day, other than trapping I think shotgun range is unlikely. I could have asked for a smaller calibre but presumably they would have the same requirements and having a. 243 opens up potential to move on to deer once I am happy with ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 They are asking for a form of mentoring which has been scrapped! BASC don't issue liscences, very true, the police don't make the law! They enforce it only, the chainsaw analogy is stupid and blatting off 20 rounds at a grass bank doesnt do anything but waste 20 rounds, if you can't shoot till feb then I would say stick to the guidance from BASC not pigeon watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alendil Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 i think its good thinking with shooting 20 rounds with someone with CF experience. just do it and have it easy way and on your side you are showing responsible approach. i dont want to offend You but 3000 rounds on shooting range is not something to go by. its just shooting range. controlled situation with bullet stops and health and safety people etc. 200 rounds in the field ( better with someone experience ) will go further. I did have big experience with CF rifles in foreign forces and still my flo told me it count for nothing until i will go with someone local and shoot some bunny's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 I think the Issue is .243 win. For certain slightly unfounded reasons its rings more alarm bells with FEO's, the deed is now done but I can say I have a friend in North wales who got granted .223 rem for fox and .22rf for other stuff as a first time applicant. I gave him a letter stating he had accompanied myself as Lamp man a few times ( I am in Lancashire so they have little knowledge of me outside the guns I hold on the PNC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 They are asking for a form of mentoring which has been scrapped! BASC don't issue liscences, very true, the police don't make the law! They enforce it only, the chainsaw analogy is stupid and blatting off 20 rounds at a grass bank doesnt do anything but waste 20 rounds, if you can't shoot till feb then I would say stick to the guidance from BASC not pigeon watch! Best answer so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Best answer so far. But is it. Do you really think it too much to ask someone, who has owned a rimfire of only a year and who has fired less than 200 rounds in the field, to have a bit of a practice/demo with an experienced shot prior to a no strings attached grant for a .243. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 But is it. Do you really think it too much to ask someone, who has owned a rimfire of only a year and who has fired less than 200 rounds in the field, to have a bit of a practice/demo with an experienced shot prior to a no strings attached grant for a .243. I understand where you're coming from and agree about experience but as was mentioned in his original post his friend won't act as a mentor because of the chance of being held liable if something was to go wrong in the future as has been suggested by some very good firearms solicitors. As HDAV pointed out, the chainsaw analogy is stupid, the OP has already been deemed suitable to possess and use a firearm and is licenced to do so. Would you take a shot with a rimfire that you had already deemed unsuitable for a centrefire, probably not. Yes, a centrefire is a big step up from a rimfire but the same rules apply. I do agree that some sort of training should be implemented but the law does not ask that so the police force should not be able to insist upon this. As HDAV has said, firing 20 rounds into a backstop does nothing but waste ammunition, that can be done with a rimfire at a great deal less expense and achieve the same experience as he would have had with a .243 (less a bit of noise and recoil). Someone that has centrefire experience may have held an open certificate for many years but may only fire a handful of shots a year so how much experience have they actually got? I would have thought it best if the OP went out with his rimfire and gained as much experience in the field as he can and then he can at least say he has experience in the field. People join BASC for reasons such as these and he has asked for advise from an organisation that knows a great deal more than the majority of members (whether people believe it or not) on PW and deals with these matters on a daily basis so why would you not follow this given advise over others who probably don't have enough knowledge on the subject. This is why I stated HDAV was the best answer so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexcernui Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Asking for people's opinions on pw is a bad idea, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 But is it. Do you really think it too much to ask someone, who has owned a rimfire of only a year and who has fired less than 200 rounds in the field, to have a bit of a practice/demo with an experienced shot prior to a no strings attached grant for a .243. I think the forgotten aspect is not very long back the word "mentor" never existed in licencing departments, deer calibres were regularly granted to new FAC applicants with "good reason". The least careful shots I have seen in the field might all come under the FEOs criteria for a mentor, to be fair I will lay a bet that compulsory training comes in and would it be that bad, every accident risks future firearms ownership of many. Don't think I have an axe to grind here as I was one of the above as regards first grant of deer calibre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Asking for people's opinions on pw is a bad idea, in my opinion. Ooooooooooo sacrilege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Someone who has held an FAC for 1 renewal cycle and has managed not to have a reported accident/incident/complaint is a suitable person to instruct in the safe use of a CF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Someone who has held an FAC for 1 renewal cycle and has managed not to have a reported accident/incident/complaint is a suitable person to instruct in the safe use of a CF? What if he has only been out an odd time? the first time I acted as a mentor (it was unknown of then really) I asked the licencing office what the criteria was. The answer I got was anyone with Deer on their ticket, it didn't even need to be an open ticket and the mentor didn't need any qualification. In general its passing responsibility to save someone else's butt if things go bad IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 It's pointless and I think they know it but it crops up again and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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