Norfolk keeper charged

[Maddaftspaniel]

Just a comment to say that whoever thinks covering a pheasant release pen works doesn't know much about releasing pheasants. They need to be able to fly in and out of the pen and pens are usually sited in woodland. What are we supposed to do cover the canopy of a mature wood with a net?

[CharlieT]

Just a comment to say that whoever thinks covering a pheasant release pen works doesn't know much about releasing pheasants. They need to be able to fly in and out of the pen and pens are usually sited in woodland. What are we supposed to do cover the canopy of a mature wood with a net?

 

 

Which is why I have given up discussing the matter with him, it is obvious from such comments that some, as you quite rightly say, have little, if any, knowledge of rearing pheasants.

 

It reminds me of past discussions on foxhunting with members of the LACS, totally pointless.

[anser2]

The covered pens I have seen all have small angled gates at ground level so the birds can pass in and out at will once large enough and can be shut at night if needed.

Edited December 31, 2013 by anser2

[Dekers]

The covered pens I have seen all have small angled gates at ground level so the birds can pass in and out at will once large enough and can be shut at night if needed.

 

Every (adult) open top pen I have ever seen has ground level bird access, many types are employed to allow bird access, but to exclude fox/predators!

[CharlieT]

The covered pens I have seen all have small angled gates at ground level so the birds can pass in and out at will once large enough and can be shut at night if needed.

 

And you wonder why those you purport to advise take no notice of you.

 

"In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king"

[squirrelhall]

The covered pens I have seen all have small angled gates at ground level so the birds can pass in and out at will once large enough and can be shut at night if needed

All pheasant pens i,v had anything to do with have a tunnel made of chicken wire on the inside same principal as a crab pot making them one way, with a fox grid to stop foxes getting in. Open topped lets the birds fly out and get used to there surroundings. Partridge pens need a roof net to stop them all flying out at once and over the horizon.You site the pens to suit the drives, and when you start releasing where i worked Buzzards and Ravens gathered into double figures and do the maths one poult each a day for a month at £4.50 +food. Then you try to get Partridges to fly anything worth shooting with a peregrine flying overhead

[-Mongrel-]

 

And you wonder why those you purport to advise take no notice of you.

 

"In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king"

 

Do you wonder why people take no notice of you? Maybe, just maybe, a post explaining why you think those disagreeing are wrong would be better than another attempt at making yourself feel superior?

[scotslad]

 

Do you wonder why people take no notice of you? Maybe, just maybe, a post explaining why you think those disagreeing are wrong would be better than another attempt at making yourself feel superior?

 

And that is why we will never get a sensible debate about this. (Althou to be fair the internet makes it worse as u can't tell how the comment was intended, so very easy to pick up wrong end of stick)

 

Charlie and others are quite right it often is not possible to roof net an entire pen esp on a larger scale, and the whole point of having a relaese pen is to get birds up roosting in that wood if it is netted sort of defeat the purpose.

And to be fair ansers last post does seem as thou he is not as experienced with shoots as he made out previously as popholes of various designs are found on 99% of pens wether roofed or not(and anyone involved with shooting would know that). We actually have panels we take out at ground level as well so birds can come a go easier instead of lifting the wire, as well as the popholes.

 

I would say it is possible to net attack prone areas, esp for buzzard attacks as generally an open area, not so easy for sparrow or gossy or tawny. My mate runs a wee shoot and they netted 1 of there pens this year (or atleast a central section inside there pen)seems to have worked for them, it was more worrying/stress caused by BOP's and not being able to hold them rather than loads of kills

Up till 3 years ago we were losing a fair ammount to buzzards and sparrows but since moving the pens and a cobination off other things (cd's, kiddes windmills, string zig zaging open areas and loads of brash/cover, planting reed canary grass are all helping) get very few actual kills now, althou 1 pen does get severly spooked and birds tend to fly out on mass not good when young as most will wander off and die throu starvation if u aren'y there at the time or shortly after

 

Anser wot happens if a BOP gets tangled up in the net? Does it happen?

[CharlieT]

 

Do you wonder why people take no notice of you? Maybe, just maybe, a post explaining why you think those disagreeing are wrong would be better than another attempt at making yourself feel superior?

 

And maybe, just maybe if you took the trouble to follow the thread you would have grasped the fact that anser2 was suggesting netted release pens with doors on the side to allow birds to walk out and then be shut in at night. An idea that, if implemented, would go against all that best management practice for the release and good welfare of pheasants and be totally impractical. A release pen must be ground vermin proof at all times.

 

One must look at the reasons for a release pen and what it is designed to achieve. They should be as large as possible, some are often several acres and many are situated in woodland. Their primary purpose is to safely contain the newly released birds for a few weeks until they are able to fly up to roost out of harms way and establish themselves in the wild.

The sooner the poults are able to leave the release pen and establish themselves on fresh ground the better, less chance of disease and other management problems. Being able to fly out over the wire is part of the acclimation process and you will see keepers walking young poults back into the pen through the pop holes every evening where they will be secure at night behind the fencing and fox wire and have adequate food and water until eventually, as they mature they will go upto roost rather than go back to the pen.

 

For someone who purports to be an expert who advises game shoots to suggest that the answer to buzzard predation is netting release pens shows just how little he knows of the subject. I appreciate netting small pens is possible but in the world of shoots who release 1000's rather than 100's, where shoots build huge pens, use tractors to till crops in their pens, site their pens in woodland and most importantly wish to encourage their birds to fly out at the appropriate time, roof nets are not feasible or practical.

 

Lastly, if a buzzard takes say 1 poult a day he's not really fussed if he takes it in the pen or outside, so even if netting was practical it would only have a real benefit a couple of weeks as after that time the poults are starting to explore outside the pen.

 

It can be heartbreaking to watch 30/40 buzzards in the air above one's pen but there is no one answer to the problem, all that can be done is lots of little things, the best solution is to ignore them, dig deep in your pocket, put down another 1000 birds and save yourself a heart attack.

[big bad lindz]

this thread started about a keeper being charged with a possible offence to the wild life act and if found guilty should take the punishiment, there has been some discussion on how and maby how not to to keep birds protected in release pens so I have a question to the game bird pundits out there that I am sure someone will know the answer to.

Can you catch and then release birds of prey away from your area ? or will the BOP just come back again or could they be taken to someone else to release, or as in the previous post are there to many.

I must admit the most buzzards that I have ever seen in the same area is 3, although there not many estates around me that raise & release birds from pens, to see 30 to 40 buzzards at one time must be some sight.

As its my first season in a syndicate I am not sure what is done to keep the BOP away but I do know that there is a good number of red kites in the area along with ospreys.

[wickedwickedmotox]

There has been a significant increase in raptors in the last twenty year and numbers keep growing without control. When we ploughed fields this year I had 19 buzzards on one field! They pose no problems to me but I do not run a shoot, the problems they can cause are horrendous and I feel it's time a survey was carried out to estimate numbers as my feelings g is a licenced cull should be introduced to areas it is needed in.

Edited January 1, 2014 by wickedwickedmotox

[CharlieT]

this thread started about a keeper being charged with a possible offence to the wild life act and if found guilty should take the punishiment, there has been some discussion on how and maby how not to to keep birds protected in release pens so I have a question to the game bird pundits out there that I am sure someone will know the answer to.

Can you catch and then release birds of prey away from your area ? or will the BOP just come back again or could they be taken to someone else to release, or as in the previous post are there to many.

I must admit the most buzzards that I have ever seen in the same area is 3, although there not many estates around me that raise & release birds from pens, to see 30 to 40 buzzards at one time must be some sight.

As its my first season in a syndicate I am not sure what is done to keep the BOP away but I do know that there is a good number of red kites in the area along with ospreys.

 

I would guess that one is not allowed to catch them without a license from NE, anser2 would be best placed to answer that and say what relocation success would be.

 

On a personal note, I know how best pleased I would be if someone released anymore round here!!

 

We have a wonderful selection of BOP here, merlin, peregrine, sparrow-hawk, kestrel, red kite, buzzard, hobby, tawny owl and barn owl are regularly seen over the farm.

 

With only 2 or 3 buzzards in residence you may find that discretionary feeding with rabbits every day helps together with whatever means you come up with to stop them perching on release pen posts and the like. Put plenty of brash or shrubs in the pen to afford the poults sanctuary or sow some form simple cover such as corn or a conservation mix.

[scotslad]

BBL as far as i know no one knows never been tried and would be illegal at the moment to intentionally catch a BOP, u may be able to get a licence(in theory) but never been granted as far as i know (apart from relocation projects, golden eagles chicks were caught in scotland to release in ireland)

 

Thats 1 of the points i raised earlier, DEFRA in england wanted to carry out some scientific studies on the actual damage they cause and wot u can do to minimise it, doing various non lethal things including relocation, but the RSPB threw their toys out the pram (despite being at the meetings and minuted agreeing with it) then leaked false/misleading info to the press about how the torries were going to murder all these BOP's so toffs can shoot more pheasants, or atleast thats the story that came out in tabloids.

 

Feel for u charlie, while it is quite nice to see them playing in thermals (esp away from my shoot) in the spring/late summer not unusaul to see 10's to 20's, but seeing 1 floating above my release pens gives me nightmares never mind 30-40

Edited January 1, 2014 by scotslad

[CharlieT]

 

Do you wonder why people take no notice of you? Maybe, just maybe, a post explaining why you think those disagreeing are wrong would be better than another attempt at making yourself feel superior?

 

I forgot to say that this reply, you so kindly quoted and so rudely replied to, was, as you would have noted, directed at anser2.

 

He and I have had this discussion in detail on this forum for more years than I care to remember. I hold no animosity towards him nor he to me, he is entitled to his view as I am to mine.

 

My making rather sarcastic replies to a fellow who I have bantered with for several years and who's conservation work I admire gives you no right to be downright rude to me for no more reason than self indulgence.

 

I await your apology.

[-Mongrel-]

As always, the Internets written word in no way shows the intention behind the words, only the words written.

 

What I read was another post that rather than offering an explanation or correction, was instead merely demeaning, and it's not the first one. That's what I responded to and I don't feel the response was particularly rude, certainly no more rude than you were, if you feel different maybe your looking at it from a different context.

 

It's not meant to be rude, but I'll stand by the sentiment.