simon1979 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I don't get it plenty of guys shoot pheasants with air rifles and rim fires. Also in the sporting pictures a guys uses his .35 cal on them no one has broken any law. http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/265272-35cal-pheasant/ But for the record the pheasants were given to me by the farm shoot and just took a picture with gun. But this on the other hand I shot a cat, horse and a duck this may well be ilegal. Andrew Really dont see the issuse with it myself atb simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I been looking at the hornet to buy myself to replace my .17hmr The farming policy changed and I swapped the 223 and WMR for the 22 Hornet leaving me with just that and the LR. I then bought the HMR and much to my chagrin I found out what I'd been missing. I'd be inclined to buy the 22 hornet as well as having the HMR as they complement each other very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Love to see a FAC that details pheasant or do they instantly become ground game when not actually flying LOL? Shooting pheasant on the ground isn't good sporting practice they are frankly too dim witted and although they might eat just as well I just shouldn't be photographing them with such a nice rifle. If they are shot with an airgun or 50bmg, in the head or in the body its not sport just killing, if you choose to do it keep it quiet its nothing to be proud of. Heck you will get criticised for shooting the less sporting birds in flight on a shoot day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 The farming policy changed and I swapped the 223 and WMR for the 22 Hornet leaving me with just that and the LR. I then bought the HMR and much to my chagrin I found out what I'd been missing. I'd be inclined to buy the 22 hornet as well as having the HMR as they complement each other very well. I should love to hear were you feel the HMR is of more use than a .22 Hornet? Other than ready made ammo. Personally I don't miss my old HMR one bit, though mine really was a tack driver once I ran the trigger in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Love to see a FAC that details pheasant or do they instantly become ground game when not actually flying LOL? Shooting pheasant on the ground isn't good sporting practice they are frankly too dim witted and although they might eat just as well I just shouldn't be photographing them with such a nice rifle. If they are shot with an airgun or 50bmg, in the head or in the body its not sport just killing, if you choose to do it keep it quiet its nothing to be proud of. Heck you will get criticised for shooting the less sporting birds in flight on a shoot day Get a life, haven't you ever heard of AOLQ, **** sporting practice, if you see a pheasant and fancy a meal are you suggesting he should go home and get his Purdy SBS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I should love to hear were you feel the HMR is of more use than a .22 Hornet? Other than ready made ammo. Personally I don't miss my old HMR one bit, though mine really was a tack driver once I ran the trigger in To be honest, I only read this post to see if you'd helped out the OP with the info on the 45gn Sierra bullet that you mentioned recently - I think that this must be the #1210 but I don't use it and have no details for it so as you know about it, I thought you may be able to pass on the info. Apparently, I was mistaken. I can't for the life of me work out where the,"of more use" comes from; I do, however, recall saying, "complements" which is not the same thing at all. I also note the use of the term, "dim witted". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I also note the use of the term, "dim witted". Subtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 To be honest, I only read this post to see if you'd helped out the OP with the info on the 45gn Sierra bullet that you mentioned recently - I think that this must be the #1210 but I don't use it and have no details for it so as you know about it, I thought you may be able to pass on the info. Apparently, I was mistaken. I can't for the life of me work out where the,"of more use" comes from; I do, however, recall saying, "complements" which is not the same thing at all. I also note the use of the term, "dim witted". Well I thought the whole length post was a bit much for a newcomer to take in, suffice to say the 45 grn sierra Hornet varminter fits, .223 or .224 available! Why the heck check up if I posted further useless info for the guy? the bullet is designed specifically for Hornet so it fits end of, I have the info someplace and can obviously measure one but like I say its meaningless in my opinion as it is very hard if not impossible to load it too long. "Complements the hornet" I don't take to mean it does exactly the same at short range yet looses the plot on windage, energy / terminals and trajectory as the range increases. Just thought you had found a use for the hornet over and above the hornet and i wanted to hear what that might be obviously "dim witted " is just a meaningless insult to get around not answering a question or picking a fight. Sorry if that made you feel insecure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Get a life, haven't you ever heard of AOLQ, **** sporting practice, if you see a pheasant and fancy a meal are you suggesting he should go home and get his Purdy SBS?I am suggesting its not normally excepted as good sporting practice and not a great thing to show with such a nice rifle nothing more. I might well have eaten pheasant killed in all sorts of "different" and certainly "unsporting" ways in my life, I might even hold some kind of record not something I am particularly proud of these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 good sporting practice "unsporting" ways. Christ on a bike. We're killing animals kent. For food allegedly. Sport doesn't or shouldn't come into it except for some people to justify and legitimise what they're doing. The only good sporting practice I can think of is giving the animal the benefit of a clean kill which in this case is probably best served on the ground with a headshot fessy. This isn't cricket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcoat Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) I love the rifle, it is everything I love about food gathering which is what we do! I use single shots out of preference, my everyday gun I carry is a 12 bore 1964 Baikal with a 30 inch full choke with a sling. My other favourites are an Anschutz .22 single shot bolt action and a Rossi .38/.357 single shot break barrel carbine. I regularly shoot squirrels, rabbits and pheasants to take home as I live a subsistence lifestyle and the ONLY criteria is the the safe shot and humane killing of the animal. My license states all legal quarry for my firearms, I don't post pictures very often but I do appreciate other people making the effort especially good ones as above. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is; if you are legally allowed to shoot pheasants with a small bore rifle and you do so for purpose of eating said animal and not just to kill it for fun and waste it, then how can any reasonable person object? Regards Nick Edited January 5, 2014 by redcoat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Christ on a bike. We're killing animals kent. For food allegedly. Sport doesn't or shouldn't come into it except for some people to justify and legitimise what they're doing. The only good sporting practice I can think of is giving the animal the benefit of a clean kill which in this case is probably best served on the ground with a headshot fessy. This isn't cricket. It very much is for me and most I suspect! You can get three chickens for a tenner at Tesco, it don't need a lot of expensive kit or time. Its a sport like cricket is for some Or its pest control (I know of only one instance were pheasant became genuine pests and it was the keeper who was tasked with their removal from the area) Why should someone pay whatever much more per bird on a shoot more than he might buy Tesco chickens? I suggest because its a sport I mean we have non paid persons paying 2k for night vision on here, they must be very dumb if they think that's a good way of feeding your family. I suppose they might do it for sport perhaps? A person either gets this or they don't, you can take a horse to water but you cant stop it urinating in the pool it when it gets there- Horses are a bit dumb you see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well lets put it another way then, I probably worded my last post badly. You mentioned good sporting practice and sporting ways. That reeks of sporting ettiquet. When you're killing animals the only ettiquet that should be aspired to is a good clean kill, taking a safe shot and general firearms safety. Anything other than that. Sport implies competition so is what we do to living things actually a sport or has that handle been bestowed on it historically by the upper crusty people that traditionally owned the shooting and made it an elite SPORT for the toffs? You see it bandied all over forums, particularly some of the stalking sites and can range from petty nitpicking to out and out snobbery by some that see it as something above other forms of shooting. It's said by some that foxes kill for sport. We don't like that at all now do we? Just an opinion, not trying to have a go at kent this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well I thought the whole length post was a bit much for a newcomer to take in, "dim witted " is just a meaningless insult to get around not answering a question or picking a fight. Sorry if that made you feel insecure Good lord! Why on earth should the fact that you consider pheasants to be dim-witted make me feel insecure. I'll tell you what does annoy me though: And that is when people have asked for information, instead of providing all that you know and then crediting them with the ability to extract from that sufficient for their needs, is someone who limits the level of any information to that which they consider can be absorbed by the recipient having a like, or even shorter, attention span to their own. That is arrogance in the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well lets put it another way then, I probably worded my last post badly. You mentioned good sporting practice and sporting ways. That reeks of sporting ettiquet. When you're killing animals the only ettiquet that should be aspired to is a good clean kill, taking a safe shot and general firearms safety. Anything other than that. Sport implies competition so is what we do to living things actually a sport or has that handle been bestowed on it historically by the upper crusty people that traditionally owned the shooting and made it an elite SPORT for the toffs? You see it bandied all over forums, particularly some of the stalking sites and can range from petty nitpicking to out and out snobbery by some that see it as something above other forms of shooting. It's said by some that foxes kill for sport. We don't like that at all now do we? Just an opinion, not trying to have a go at kent this time. Got nothing to do with Toffs, like I say about horses they are just dumb animals. Take a day out on a every day working every day syndicate and shoot a sitter- see whats said and if they ever let you out again. Like I say Horses and all that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Good lord! Why on earth should the fact that you consider pheasants to be dim-witted make me feel insecure. I'll tell you what does annoy me though: And that is when people have asked for information, instead of providing all that you know and then crediting them with the ability to extract from that sufficient for their needs, is someone who limits the level of any information to that which they consider can be absorbed by the recipient having a like, or even shorter, attention span to their own. That is arrogance in the extreme. Nah, the OP might be twice the intellect of any of us but too much info that's not relevant can only serve to confuse. when I worked as a top end kitchen designer / trainer I didn't tell clients why I did everything I told them what it did for them. The 45 grn Seirra hornet bullet fits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 when I worked as a top end kitchen designer / trainer I didn't tell clients why I did everything I told them what it did for them. Practise what you preach - too much information - "top end " is extraneous, simply being an opinion and not necessarily factual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Practise what you preach - too much information - "top end " is extraneous, simply being an opinion and not necessarily factual. Not to those that know the boundaries well enough, like bullets length- if relevant you don't need to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Not to those that know the boundaries well enough, like bullets length- if relevant you don't need to ask There we go; that nicely brings us back to where we came in - someone who doesn't know (as yet) wisely asking for some help and on that point, I'll leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I am suggesting its not normally excepted as good sporting practice and not a great thing to show with such a nice rifle nothing more. I might well have eaten pheasant killed in all sorts of "different" and certainly "unsporting" ways in my life, I might even hold some kind of record not something I am particularly proud of these days. I accept sporting practice when I'm in a Sporting environment, when I'm out rough shooting/pest control I'm not looking for high challenging birds or interested in any sporting etiquette! If I have, for example, my HMR in my hand and I see a Pheasant he comes home with me sans a head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Got a friend in your area who has taken in excess of 1000 foxes with his 22K Hornet over the last 40 years, this is engraved into the action of the rifle, a BRNO. He reloads and uses Sierra 45gr Soft point Bullets. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Got a friend in your area who has taken in excess of 1000 foxes with his 22K Hornet over the last 40 years, this is engraved into the action of the rifle, a BRNO. He reloads and uses Sierra 45gr Soft point Bullets. A If we're talking the #1310, then this is a 'hard' bullet designed tor 223 velocities of 3000ft/sec+. If the makers concede that it will not perform at lower velocities, then in all probability it won't. In the higher powered 'K', all well and good but for the standard 22, then it's probably better to stick with bullets designed for those velocities, certainly initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 K hornet only gives 3-5% increase in velocity at the receiving end most normally (taken From Sierra Bullets data). Its difficult to say exactly as it depends on powder, bullet, case and barrel but I doubt there is anyone getting a great deal more. This don't add up to a hill of beans! It (the conversion) was developed in the early 1940's and chronographs were not exactly thick on the ground back then so early days the gains were just optimistic guesses. More powder = more velocity is not always the case! As will be told The hornet is quite a funny little case as regards velocity and in tests 10.5 - 12.8 grns gave no higher max velocity over the chrono in my std chamber gun, though it did become more stable at the higher levels giving far better SD by producing less low readings. This was done with various primers, bullets and cases BUT only with LilGun. A factor in all this is barrel length, pistols are listed with higher gains on the K variant than the rifles like for like as regards propellant etc. This suggests that the powder is burnt differently as the hornet rifle has around 6" more barrel than it needs to burn a case load of LilGun. Those extra 6" I think might only serve to slow the bullet and in a land were moderators are now the norm..................... I have yet to do the chop though, its hard to commit when a thing just works so good as is Now if your pushing 2800 fps + as most are I doubt it makes a darn bit of difference on terminal bullet function / fragmentation if you use a bullet developed for .223 rem or not IF the range is kept to say 150 max. Obviously a lighter more frangible bullet will perform better at lower impact speeds but thought should be given to the range this becomes relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Well I thought the whole length post was a bit much for a newcomer to take in, I am so sorry; it's just that the temptation was irresistible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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