proposed minimum wage rise

[overandunder2012]

i have noticed some people say that instead of raising the minimum wage we should reduce benefits how does that help the working man? he dont give a **** about benefits

[overandunder2012]

recon ya live in cucko land

why dont you like money ? people on min wage do their just not getting much of it

Edited January 8, 2014 by overandunder2012

[keg]

 

For homebuilding? Increase supply - for example - something they have considered already - tell the large home building firms they will lose the planning they have on their land unless they start building on it within 6 months (and complete within 18). Just one example.

 

For energy? Increase supply - fracking comes to mind - perhaps not palatable to some, but it brought down gas prices in the US massively. Just one example.

 

Control is something else - like what Labour proposed - capping energy prices. Takes no account of the dynamics of supply and demand pricing. That is utter madness.

I like! Aris for PM, those ideas make sense to me. I've always said we need to get cute with developers. If a development is going to put undue strain on local resources, get the developer to either fund or part fund docs surgeries, school etc.

[aris]

The problem is that there are too many vested interests who would not be happy if what i suggested happened - at least if it happened too quickly.

 

Imagine if house prices went down even fractionally due to increased supply. The economy would go into depression. Negative equity - back to the 80's.

 

It is a huge dilemma. Suffice to say that if the solutions wee easy, they would have been done.

[keg]

True, on the point of negative equity, it only affects a few people that have bought in say, the last 3-5 years and only those that plan to move. The press do seem to hype the NE bit quite a lot. Would love to see the stats on how many people are moving at any point and what percentage of those bought recently.

[Paul223]

What goes around comes around

To pay ten £/hour every commodity and service would have to go up, someone must always pay for the increase, and like it or not but most things are paid for out of the household budget, what you gain you'll probably loose through the increase applied to cover the rise

[aris]

What goes around comes around

To pay ten £/hour every commodity and service would have to go up, someone must always pay for the increase, and like it or not but most things are paid for out of the household budget, what you gain you'll probably loose through the increase applied to cover the rise

 

You could look at it another way - we're paying the difference anyhow through higher taxes paid out to those on low income via benefits and tax credits.

[daz2202]

 

 

I have massive compertition from the likes of SCS and other national stores who are on my doorstep

 

I'm not saying that your business is short of competition. All business's have plenty of that.

Where I am leading with this is that I purchase an item for say £100. I mark this item up at between 8 and 10% and sell it. My company has to offer a free delivery service with this and I have to stock in excess of £100k to stay competitive, employ 5 staff, accountants and pay rent and rates on the shop.

If selling a central heating boiler which would normally be in excess of £600 I just add £15 to the cost price!!!

 

This is how price competitive I have to be to keep going.

 

Whereas if your carpet fitter goes to a house to lay the carpet for £100 I am sure there is more than £8-£10 in it for you. And you would have made some profit on the carpet sold. I know the carpet industry very well as my family own a large carpet and remnant store. They turnover a third what I do for a larger return. However I chose my route in life and now I am running with it.

 

Thus back to the original question. If £10 was to be a minimum wage, I have just shut down my business, made 5 people redundant and put a bigger drain on the societies rock and roll system.

 

 

 

p.s Keg. I love my Range Rover, Thanks

[keg]

Not a Bentley?

 

You work hard for it, you should enjoy it.

[Deker]

i have noticed some people say that instead of raising the minimum wage we should reduce benefits how does that help the working man? he dont give a **** about benefits

 

Because if people on benefits get enough to get by but not enough to offer a lifestyle choice then working for a living would be more of an incentive and more people working is more tax being collected which should bring taxation down (essentially making our current money go further), I know that is in an ideal world and the government would have pass the tax breaks back on to people, but raising the minimum wage which then raises the cost of living seems counter productive.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Deker

[Paul223]

 

You could look at it another way - we're paying the difference anyhow through higher taxes paid out to those on low income via benefits and tax credits.

No I think not, that will still be the case but 2 fold, first those on the dole will get paid more increasing the burden and second as commodity / food and services increase in cost the tax credit system will adjust to suit, bringing us back to base

[overandunder2012]

 

Because if people on benefits get enough to get by but not enough to offer a lifestyle choice then working for a living would be more of an incentive and more people working is more tax being collected which should bring taxation down (essentially making our current money go further), I know that is in an ideal world and the government would have pass the tax breaks back on to people, but raising the minimum wage which then raises the cost of living seems counter productive.

i cant see how the working man getting the raise will ever see it as counter productive at least not to him. and tax breaks on minimum wage are not exactly going to give him much alot of minimum wage workers dont pay tax if they are part time. we are not talking about giving people an incentive to work were talking about rewarding those that already do. only way to do that is pay him more

[Paul223]

It's a big circle of fire

[Deker]

i cant see how the working man getting the raise will ever see it as counter productive at least not to him. and tax breaks on minimum wage are not exactly going to give him much alot of minimum wage workers dont pay tax if they are part time. we are not talking about giving people an incentive to work were talking about rewarding those that already do. only way to do that is pay him more

 

Because if everyone gets the minimum wage increase then the cost of goods will go up (companies will pass the cost to the buyer not take it out of their profit) so yes the increase will show on the wage slip but the money wont actually go any further and if fact could even be worse off depending on how many minimum wage people are involved in the process of the goods, as I mentioned earlier this will mean more people (and countries) look at importing their goods from different suppliers possibly even in different countries which could result in people in this country being made redundant due to lower production runs and higher costs.

[overandunder2012]

 

Because if everyone gets the minimum wage increase then the cost of goods will go up (companies will pass the cost to the buyer not take it out of their profit) so yes the increase will show on the wage slip but the money wont actually go any further and if fact could even be worse off depending on how many minimum wage people are involved in the process of the goods, as I mentioned earlier this will mean more people (and countries) look at importing their goods from different suppliers possibly even in different countries which could result in people in this country being made redundant due to lower production runs and higher costs.

whys there not been mass unemployment every time they raise wages?

[Deker]

whys there not been mass unemployment every time they raise wages?

 

Because in general it only goes up 10-15p per hour per year but now people are suggesting £4 per hour increase, or even a minimum of the maximum allowed on benefits (which if the tabloids are to believed is around £28K), this would ruin small businesses

[overandunder2012]

raising wages 15p is not worth anything they shouldnt bother not a vote winner

[Paul223]

 

Because in general it only goes up 10-15p per hour per year but now people are suggesting £4 per hour increase, or even a minimum of the maximum allowed on benefits (which if the tabloids are to believed is around £28K), this would ruin small businesses

Overnight

[old rooster]

People expect a very high standard of living these days, those in the "poverty trap" still seem able to have leather 3 piece suites, smoke fags, drink beer, have a big telly and Sky TV. I personally don't consider that as poverty! When I first lived in my own place (rented) I couldn't afford all of those things and I was working.

 

I'm not advocating a return to living in caves but in living memory the concept of getting out what you put in and making an effort to improve ones situation exist.

 

We still need to find a way of getting people back to work rather than bringing in others to do the jobs. Those that come in do seem to be able to live reasonable lifestyles, no good relating to those seasonal workers who live in cramped conditions as they don't represent the majority. They are just saving as much of their earnings as possible to take back home where the money earned here is actually worth much more.

[islandgun]

Is minimum wage a fairly recent thing? I don't remember it when I was young (Which was a long time ago) Then if you didnt like the pay you changed jobs bad payers got bad workers and vis versa

if you paid peanuts you got monkeys,

iv'e enjoyed the arguments so far though, unfortunately cant see an answer

[Deker]

Is minimum wage a fairly recent thing? I don't remember it when I was young (Which was a long time ago) Then if you didnt like the pay you changed jobs bad payers got bad workers and vis versa

if you paid peanuts you got monkeys,

iv'e enjoyed the arguments so far though, unfortunately cant see an answer

 

Yes from 2005ish (the page below only goes back that far so it may have been a year or two before that)

 

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

[old rooster]

Is minimum wage a fairly recent thing? I don't remember it when I was young (Which was a long time ago) Then if you didnt like the pay you changed jobs bad payers got bad workers and vis versa

if you paid peanuts you got monkeys,

iv'e enjoyed the arguments so far though, unfortunately cant see an answer

 

The answer is that people who have no skills cant really expect to get paid the same as people who've taken the time to gain/learn some.

 

We need to get lazy people back into work by stopping their benefit payments if they refuse to take and keep a job when offered.

 

Might sound a bit draconian to the liberals and lefties but I can't recall a referendum to see if the working people of this country ever approved of elective unemployment to be funded by their tax payments?

 

It has become ridiculous if anybody cares to take a step back and consider the full implications of where we are today.

[lucas]

I've got a great idea, make the minimum wage £100000 a hour. That way I would retire early andeveryone would be happy wouldn't they?r

[kdubya]

 

The answer is that people who have no skills cant really expect to get paid the same as people who've taken the time to gain/learn some.

 

We need to get lazy people back into work by stopping their benefit payments if they refuse to take and keep a job when offered.

 

Might sound a bit draconian to the liberals and lefties but I can't recall a referendum to see if the working people of this country ever approved of elective unemployment to be funded by their tax payments?

 

It has become ridiculous if anybody cares to take a step back and consider the full implications of where we are today.

nobody expects them to attract the same wage as a skilled person pay differential is all about betterment and incentive (what is your take on skilled by the way) but regardless of skill if you want someone to work for you for 40 hours a week you should pay that person a "living wage" which the present min wage is not, you also go on and on about lazy people on benefit blah blah blah, not all on benefit claimants are there by choice, and your other point re why should tax payers fund their payment, perhaps you should ask another question if tax and benefit grip your dids so much IE why should a company such as ASDA who make billions in profit, employ workers and pay rates that require their workers to need to be subsidised to achieve a living wage by the said taxpayer in the form of tax credits, or a pensioner on a 50K a year pension receive a cold weather payment etc.

 

 

KW

Edited January 9, 2014 by kdubya

[old rooster]

nobody expects them to attract the same wage as a skilled person pay differential is all about betterment and incentive (what is your take on skilled by the way) but regardless of skill if you want someone to work for you for 40 hours a week you should pay that person a "living wage" which the present min wage is not, you also go on and on about lazy people on benefit blah blah blah, not all on benefit claimants are there by choice, and your other point re why should tax payers fund their payment, perhaps you should ask another question if tax and benefit grip your dids so much IE why should a company such as ASDA who make billions in profit, employ workers and pay rates that require their workers to need to be subsidised to achieve a living wage by the said taxpayer in the form of tax credits, or a pensioner on a 50K a year pension receive a cold weather payment etc.

 

KW

You are obviously off on one again today. Where did I suggest that all on benefits are lazy? As for a pensioner who gets a £50k a year pension it is probably because he/she has worked hard all their life and saved towards said pension, they don't get any more of a state pension than the person who has never done a days work in their life but have contributed all along to the pension pot. I don't see why they shouldn't get at least the same benefits, unless you think the thrifty, hard working people out there should be hammered right to the grave?