Restocking a English Percussion Muzzle loader.

[demonwolf444]

Good idea, i already use pritstick to close off one end, so i may as well just fold and glue the other end, it would save some time

 

I don't use them all the time or it would start to take some of the fun from front stuffing, always carry the flask and pouch with me.

 

James.

 

May have found another project god help me.

[kiffy]

May have found another project god help me.

 

 

what you found now?

[demonwolf444]

Was at a new permission ferreting the other day and he says " i have this old .410 " Its a single shot bolt action webley. It is in pieces, the barrel is rusty to hell ( talking an 40 grit sand paper job to get it back to metal ) the bore is blocked with mud and probably rusty and pitted, the stock screws are missing and the threads are jimmed. its 2 1/2 inch proof nitro proof full choke. Its one redeeming feature is that the wood work is exceptionally nice walnut by pretty much anyone's standards especially for a 410. If a gun dealer had it he would use it as a door stop. Its worth nothing especially in the state its in. I offered him 15 quid for it but told him it was not even worth that. I suppose i should only count my blessings that its actually on ticket.

[kiffy]

sounds like fun, i bought an old side by side last year not in as bad a condition as your 410 and its amazing what reblacking barells and refinishing the woodwork can do.. mine went from a right dog i bought thinking i might work on it and sell it on to one that although i rarely use i wouldnt sell now

 

but i did enjoy the process and am going to a gun auction on the weekend so if i see one thats cheap and needs work i might take the plunge and do it again...

[demonwolf444]

Its so satisfying bringing a dog back from the pound as it were. I have not got the 410 yet, i am dubious if he will accept 15 quid for it but to be honest it would be an embarrassment to spend any money on it what so ever. Then again i have always wanted a .410, but would prefer a 3 shot bolt action, pump.

or lever.

 

looking at getting the top tang and the side plates re coloured.. thoughts appreciated..

 

Been out this evening and got a bunny with the airgun, ground was frosty to hell, so not many out and the one's that were there were impossible to see.

Edited March 12, 2014 by demonwolf444

[kiffy]

sounds to me like he would be as silly not to accept fifteen quid as you would be to pay him fifteen quid

 

but at the end of the day it may not make financial sence to buy it and spend money on it but thats not what its about.. your not doing it to make money your doing it as you enjoy the whole process and will get something to be proud of when its done... if he'll take the money go for it

and a .410 is a lovely gun, ive not put many shots through mine as ive not had it long but i think its acalibre that will be staying in my safe now

[demonwolf444]

Certainly would! Hopefully will get it soon. Have you been out with your boom stick yet!

[kiffy]

so did you get the gun?

[demonwolf444]

Still have not been through, Need to go for it still, its on a friends permission he has through his friend, i was taken as an extra gun once, so i don't feel comfortable just turning up there. Busy as well at the moment so the time would be a nice thing!

 

Will be getting it, not going anywhere in no rush. If it does one of the forum rfd's will find me something to fiddle with!

[demonwolf444]

Update.

 

I have reduced the amount of wadding to just a measured scrunch of paper wadding. I now Fold and glue the end of my cartridges to save time and i intend to dip the shot ends in beeswax to help keep fouling soft. I have a little wooden box which happens to hole 10 lines of six cartridges which is really convenient so i have rolled 60 tubes and filled the box. I intend to load all these.

 

I also have made some nitrated paper, so i am going to work on some tubes from nitrated paper, which should burn the paper better, the wadding will obviously remain non nitrated.

 

I am also beginning to piece together a low budget shot maker, which should be able to create small quantities of shot. It is going to take a lot of tweaking but when done, all being well it should be a shot maker for less than £20 all in, though hopefully most the stuff should be house hold items near enough, but more on that later.

 

Still need to pick up that 410.. i'll get around to it.

[Underdog]

This is getting better!

 

How did you nitrite the paper Sir?

 

U

[demonwolf444]

I saturated boiling water with salt peter/ potassium nitrate/ KNO3, cut the paper into strips the length that i use to roll the cartridges scrunched them up and while wearing rubber gloves submerged it in the mixture squeezing it to ensure it has soaked up the solution. Then remove the scrunched up paper squeeze off the excess solution carefully unfold the paper and leave it somewhere warm to dry. Once dry you can roll up cartridges with it - all my carts are rolled using "cartridge paper" for those big flip charts.

 

Have not got around to testing the nitrated paper cartridges yet.

 

I assume the more saturated the solution you use the faster the burn rate of the paper. I have burnt off cuts and twisted in to a cord they make an excellent medium burn rate fuse.

 

My only concern is that if you were to IMPROPERLY load the nitrated paper cartridges by simply ramming the whole cartridge home, there would be a risk that any ember in the breech would ignite the back end of the cartridge which could prematurely ignite the main charge which would obviously create a pipe bomb situation, and likely your hand would be just in front of the main charge of lead at the muzzle end.

 

For safety it is IMPERATIVE to ensure that when loading these cartridges; nitrated or not, you always tear off the tail and pour the powder down the barrel that way the powder charge and the shot charge are momentarily separated, so if by sheer bad luck there was an ember at the breech, only the powder would burn off avoiding any dangerous situation.

 

Most muzzle loaders would see that as basic safe practice i would hope; but for anyone just passing through or anything who might not know i thought it best to mention it.

Using these cartridges you can shoot uncommonly fast for a muzzle loader; which came in handy when i went ferreting with it!

 

Ive also decided i definately need a flinchlock. Unfortunately my wallet doesn't agree.

 

Just noted the price of .410 shells; not in any rush to pick that one up.

 

Guy on ebay from Doncaster is selling lead shot for £1.50 / KG picked up so thats good to know for any who may be in that direction.

 

Kranks price for a 7KG tub of lead is £40 or something of the like..

 

Working my butt off to pay for my springer spaniel Meryn who comes home with me in June, so no time for fun at the moment, and no money for bits and bobs, will settle down again in may, and might finally end up sending off one of the three sets of forms i printed out for BP ticket!

 

Definitely need to get out a bit and use the old smoke pole again since i got it its had 10- 15 rabbits, one big old buck hare, a crow and some rats ( ferrets upset a nest of them when we were last out; seemed like a waste of lead but they did give us some good sport and i was hardly going to shove my hand down the hole to retrieve the ferret! )

 

The nitrated paper is funny stuff; good fun to play with! If you want any sending you are more than welcome Underdog, just PM me. Shouldn't be any issue's as it is not an explosive, just slightly more flammable paper..

[demonwolf444]

Also been working on reloading some shells; until some pay comes through i am very tight for money. Anyway not wanting to buy a box of cartridges but needing to get some ferret food i lifted some empty cartridges from the floor of my car. Using a modified G clamp i punched the primers out, re primed them, then put the same load of pryodex and shot i use in my muzzle loader in them, i used a light fast "BB" load as i had some lead .177 bb's sat in a box.

 

Needing the ferret food i went out for half an hour today and got sat in the hedge, with just three cartridges, after a long wait in the hedge back i finally spotted a crow coming off the rape straight towards, getting ready i swung through.. BANG.. I think i must have the volume of shot to powder just right because it was a good 40 yard shot, and it worked perfectly for me, the crow crumpled without a twitch. The noise upset some pigeons on some neighboring rape and unfortunately having just seen the load work perfectly i cant blame the cartridge for the awful miss on an easy pigeon.

 

Think i will turn my attention to shot making this evening and have a play about with that.

[Underdog]

Sorry for the late reply matey..glad your having fun and good on you with the shells. All the best.

 

U.

[demonwolf444]

Quite alright, let me know if you want some nitrated paper to play with! Had a quick go with a very simple shot making set up. Got the lead molten and dripping correctly. Utterly failed at creating shot, the molten lead droplets just pop corned. I think they were dropping to far flattening when they hit the coolant, which was too shallow. I think they need to roll along some kind of drip tray into the coolant as apposed to dropping. I think the coolant needs to be deeper.

[Underdog]

That happened to me too. I understand antifreeze is the coolant to use.

Many others on here know more than I ever will!

U.

[Underdog]

still used though!

[demonwolf444]

Mine is not even that good, imagine it like bran flakes. Its defiantly dropping too far into the coolant, i think it wants to roll a short distance into the coolant.. which needs to be much deeper. Will look into anti freeze when i next have a play.

 

Finally sent my BP ticket forms off last week. Took a bit of understanding.. but got there. Need to build the box soon!

[demonwolf444]

So about two months after doing this stock i realized i had done a pretty poor job making this stock.

 

The wrist is the wrong shape for the time period of the gun.

The wood is the wrong wood for the time period of the gun.

The but plate was wrong.

The shaping of the wood in general was pretty poor.

 

So i burnt the stock a while ago.

 

I have been sat with a box of parts in the cabinet for months and finally have nearly finished with a stock that is much more acceptable.

 

It needs checkering and finishing but other than that I'm much more pleased with the stock. The reality is this gun was never a good candidate to restock, the original stock and its condition were part of this guns history and should have been left when ever possible the original stocks should be kept and altered to fit and re finished. Most breaks can be repaired using modern methods skillfully and this is what i now do wherever possible. In the case of missing stocks or stocks smashed through the wrist there is obviously no alternative to a restock.

 

I have taken a great deal of care throughout to ensure the wood choice and shaping of the stock ties in with the age of the gun and the styles you would expect to see in a gun of this vintage. Letting metal in to wood is easy enough but to me shaping the wood in such a way as represents the style of the guns age is somewhat more subtly challenging. Photo's to follow.

[archiebald]

You burnt the stock?! I thaught it looked good!

 

Looking forwards to seeing the new one.

[welshwarrior]

James burning walnut 😩 there is always another use for it, done burn it knife handle stick spacers etc are all good uses.

[demonwolf444]

Okay so i first turned my attention to the worm cap on the ram rod. From Dyson a new worm with the brass cap is about thirty quid; so i dug about in a box and found some brass radiator bleed keys.

 

 

For all intents and purposes to me this looked like a worm cap blank, it already had a hole drilled in the base and through the top and knurling around the edge.

 

So i died the ramrod thread to M5 then tapped the radiator key hole to M5. Then stuck it in the drill press and turned it down to size.

 

 

Happy days. This is the worm for those who don't know its for pulling wads from the muzzle.

 

 

And here it is with the new cap fitted.

 

 

Because the worm cap is only screwed on just by using the ramrod they can and do work loose which is why they get lost. At least now even if i do loose it a worm cap blank ( radiator key ) can be bought 3 for £1.99 and made in 5 minutes.

 

On to the stock....

 

The wood that should be on this gun is a plainish english walnut, not American walnut. Well i couldn't find any plain english walnut but i did find a rather nice piece which was wood worm damaged so i thought that would be an acceptable compromise to be going on with. The wood worm damage will tie in with the age of the gun and the wood will be the right color, if a bit too fancy but i think i can allow that indulgence as its a gun i use. Sadly the wood worm damage was extreme through the for end so i had to join a bit on that had no damage i didn't really want to have to do this but sadly had no choice. The other thing i didn't count on was the difficulty of in-letting into wood worm damaged wood which was a nightmare as its so dusty and soft grained, and the wood worm treatment i applied was nasty when you took in treated wood dust.

 

 

 

You can see this side is rather fancy; and you can see the wood worm damage.

 

 

This is a bit more like the grain i was wanting, a bit less in your face and less wood worm damage.

 

The photo below shows the worst of the damage.

 

 

I did checker it then was still unhappy with the shape which is why you can see the remains of the checker in the bottom right of this photo.

 

The hammer are due to be replaced pending an order with E J Blackley.

 

The wrist is dirty as i had just shot a bit with pyrodex which is hopeless compared to real black powder and produces a horrible oily residue, a henry kranks trip is due to pick up some more powder.

 

Right hand lock:

 

 

Left hand lock:

 

 

Still a bit more relief needed around the drop points and final checkering and finishing is still needed but its good to have it roaring again.

 

 

Narrows from the but to the back of the lock plates which then flare out towards the for end; this style was completely lost on my earlier attempt.

 

 

 

The forend key is fitted much better and more securely than before and the inletting of the small parts is better, thought all the metal parts are quite sooty still around the edges and its making the in-letting look worse than it is in real life.

 

 

 

the job on the whole is much more pleasing to me and i think with some clever checkering and work the join of the for end can be hidden. The measurements and fit are generally improved as well as the shape of the wrist which was previously uncomfortable and improperly shaped.

 

 

 

 

opinions welcome.

[Zapp]

That's a gorgeous bit of wood.

[demonwolf444]

Zapp - it is a proper piece of english walnut of the type you don't really get to see today, the good side of it is a bit too good for a gun of this grade and its just a shame about the wood worm damage. The hope was the damage might tie in with the age and wear of the rest of the gun. It will be oil finished and checkered and the checkering will be worn down to tie in with the age of the gun then hopefully i'll be happy with it.

 

The other thing i forgot to say is the but plate screws are just some modern ones that are holding it at the moment, eventually i will either make or fit ones more like it should have.

 

Cheers for the kind words on the previous stock, honestly it looked bad and felt worse, it was uncomfortable to use because of being thin in the back of the wrist which you really noticed, the wood color was wrong and the other things i mentioned previously. At the time i rushed the shaping and other parts along the way, and while functional it was just poorly done.

[demonwolf444]

The sixth and seventh pictures down show a sneeky preview of a playfair keepers grade hammer gun being restocked, it was given by old farrier from these forums it had someones home made teak or similar wood stock which was cracking at the head and was not the most comfortable finished with spa varnish, i used it as was ferreting through late autumn and winter and shot some really good corvids and some cracking bolting rabbits with it, and so i fell in love with trusty rusty and decided i would restock it as a straight grip ( previously prince of wales style ) as one to keep to my preferred measurements. The walnut is some kind of European walnut and has nice tone, color and contrast and it works very nicely. It's only been headed up and the but stock shaped and horn but plate fitted so once i finish on the muzzle loader i'll get back to that next.. i have several others i may share with you also.