Dunkield Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I will keep an eye on this thread, this is interesting. I don't see how it would move after you finish shooting (unless you chuck it in the car, which I doubt you do!) If it us the scope, surely it would move zero all the time, not just after each tidy group of 3 shots? But as I said, the outcome of this will be very interesting - I have never heard of any S&B problems until I read this either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Went out this morning to try and see if it was the scope, I tried tapping the gun and scope lightly with my hand in the hope that if anything was loose inside the scope it might change POI. I then shoot a group of 3 rounds almost on target (I always zero 1 inch high at 130yards) see attached target. The group was a little tighter than yesterday which I am pleased with but it was 12mm off to the left from yesterdays group, however yesterdays wind was a little stronger than to days so I have just moved the wind age 1 click (13mm @130) back to the right after shooting the group. I think its fair to say that because of the fact the wind was slightly less today this could be the cause for the 12mm movement to the left. I feel I have now eliminated the scope and mod from being the cause of my impact shift. All that remains know is for my to clean the gun again over the next few days to see if the POI changes after cleaning. I agree with all of you, simply cleaning a gun should not alter it's POI (with perhaps exception to the first shot fired from a clean barrel) but this is what has been happing after every clean the POI has change anywhere from 2 -6 inches from where it was before cleaning. I will update the post next week once I have had a chance to shoot some more and then clean the barrel and re-test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ballie This is indeed an interesting (bloody nuisance for you) thread. I think your problem can only be caused by movement somewhere. Action/stock, scope or mounts. If you have ruled out the scope and mounts then the next question has to be as Quist suggested the bedding of the action and stock. Is there any chance that when you clean the rifle the cleaning process somehow moves the action/barrel in the stock or brings the stock to bear on the barrel. Is the barrel fully floated with plenty of room right up to the action. Keep us all posted. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I agree with all of you, simply cleaning a gun should not alter it's POI (with perhaps exception to the first shot fired from a clean barrel) but this is what has been happing after every clean the POI has change anywhere from 2 -6 inches from where it was before cleaning. Ballie ................CLEANING It can cause eratic grouping .................What you describe is exactly the senario I went through .Centre fire is so tempermental it can have you hanging yourself on a light flex if you let it Have you considered that your particular rifle prefers to be run fouled ...........It does happen . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Would listen to Ive, my IQ dipped for a while digesting some of his advice on floating barrels but as usual (tis really getting boring now Ive ) he was spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 not had the hornet long, and gave a proper clean the other week. 25 rounds to get it back right, it was not far out but far enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 It can cause eratic grouping .................What you describe is exactly the senario I went through .Centre fire is so tempermental it can have you hanging yourself on a light flex if you let it Have you considered that your particular rifle prefers to be run fouled ...........It does happen . Light flex! I have already gone and bought a suitable length of rope and at this very moment I am not sure whether my wife is thinking about joining me in joint suicide or shooting me because she is fed up with hearing about my rifle. My only saving grace is that she hates foxes because they have eaten her chickens in the past. For anyone new to this post its not the size of the group that is the issue here, it is the fact that the whole group 3,4 or 5 rounds etc, although group very nicely are just a few inches away from the last time you shot it before cleaning. As IVE has suggested I will next check the barrel is fully floating. If necessary can anyone recommend someone that beds actions in the Norfolk area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I would just make sure you don't have any wood to meatl contact that <may> be causing the group shift, before worrying about bedding. But if you do go down that route Steve Kershaw comes highly recommended for the job, but he is up Doncaster way. Better to use a good riflesmith who isn't local than a numpty who is For a minute earlier I thought you were going to say the first time you shot a group the wind was blowing left to right at 20mph and the next time it was right to left at 30mph - now that would have a hell of an admission to make :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted January 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Stuartp I am fussy, but I am not asking for advise on how to change the wind (LOL) I know the people that post here are good but can they change the wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadeye ive Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...howtopic=25439# Not sure if you,ve already read this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Take it back to where you got it from, dont tinker with it, can effect your warrenty. All rifles are different, but i clean mine everytime i use it, be it 1 shot or 20, using a bronze brush, jag, patches, ect ect. Never had a zero shift, allways bang on. :blink: Good luck, Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 27, 2007 Report Share Posted January 27, 2007 Stuartp I am fussy, but I am not asking for advise on how to change the wind (LOL) I know the people that post here are good but can they change the wind? :blink: :blink: No, I just wanted to be sure that had been taken into consideration, obviously it has I want to know how this ends. I will stick my neck out and say I don't think it will be the scope related - but let's see, keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted January 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Guys, Thanks for all the advise so far, you have all given my a lot to think about and many different things to try. I have also had a long PM from mry716 basically he is suggesting that I completely strip the rifle and then start putting it together again from scratch checking everything as I go. As I rebuild the rifle I will be lapping the scope mounts, fitting allan bolt action screws, checking the barrel is fully floating and checking head space etc. I will be doing all this over the next week or two then I will re-zero, then clean then check the zero again to see if it has changed after cleaning. Post back once I have the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I have tried the scope on a friends 223 and it shot fine even after cleaning! so my zero shift is not scope related. I have removed the action from the stock and was surprised to see that 90mm from the action there is a piece of plastic like lug that touches the barrel and it looks like its meant to! (you can see it in the photos) I have removed some stock marital to free float the barrel along the length of the stock up to the point (90mm from the action) where this piece of plastic lug touches the barrel. My question is should I remove this lug as well and continue removing the stock right up to the action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 That looks like a right botch up of a stock. Thank gawd I bought the wooden one. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethevanman Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I am with all the other guys on this one as I read a article on residue after cleaning, affecting your zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 That looks like a right botch up of a stock. Thank gawd I bought the wooden one. G.M. Yes I agree the stock is a real cheap and nasty thing, in the last photo it looks worse than it is because the flash on the camera has hi-lighted all the sandind marks ans dust. On your wooden stock does the barrel float right up to the action? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Ballie, I would sand it. I had the same thing on my Browning .270 when i bought it, and since doing the same i've had no problems. As long as the action is secure, once fitted back into the stock I have a tikka 595 de-luxe and the barrel is free floatign all the way up to the action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevethevanman Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 How does free floating help accuracy, I have never understood this , because wouldn't making the barrel more secure be better for accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 On your wooden stock does the barrel float right up to the action? Yes it does and although it was a good fit I have removed material and bedded it around the front and rear action bolts. I would be tempted to tighten the action up and see if it moves at all when tugged on. I just can’t believe that cleaning moves the POI from day to day. I have never seen or heard anything like this in my life. G.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 weird science steve. It's all to do with harmonics, and by having a floating barrel it will act as it should with no obstructions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGalway Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 When I sanded my stock I used 150 (medium) sandpaper. May even be worth going with a lower number as I did quite a bit of it! Then get a finer grade to finish it up. I think this thread was already referenced but here it is again about my stock issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 [i just can’t believe that cleaning moves the POI from day to day. I have never seen or heard anything like this in my life. G.M. I can't believe that cleaning can be the fault either which is why I am trying to ensure the barrel is free floating and everything is put back nice and tight after rebuilding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Jeez Ballie, It looks like you've removed a hell of a lot of material from the stock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballie Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Jeez Ballie, It looks like you've removed a hell of a lot of material from the stock! It does look bad in the photos but it looks ok in reality, however I will accept that I was a little enthusiastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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