FatFreddysCat Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Iv'e a Ugartechea 10b SBS proofed as above, I intend to have it bored out this summer 1/4 and 1/2, for steel. are you happy with the choke or would you change it? I copied this chart from an American publication. If you look at the pellet counts at 60yds for extra full and imp mod (= 3/4 in English) you can see that there is hardly any difference suggesting that very tight chokes with steel doesn't improve the pattern. The 2nd chart, although a 12 bore test, actually shows that anything tighter than modified (1/2) actually gives worse patterns with shot sizes 1 and smaller and gives a very marginal improvement with BB. Link to complete article at bottom of post. http://www.easternwoodsandwaters.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:steel-shot-under-the-microscope&catid=7:firearms&Itemid=59# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the great reply I like the look of the goose load, I only started reloading for this season and only with lead (inland) I will be loading steel this summer, patterning it and trying some clays, who knows with some gun alterations i might start hitting a few things, Just seen your last post, I understand that steel patterns tighter anyway so there may be little point to full choke, I will have a good look at your post and may have to PM you later Just had a look at your link very interesting, cheers Edited January 31, 2014 by islandgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Has anyone had any problems putting steel through 10g sbs? I'm assuming these guns aren't steel proofed. I've been think of going down the 10b route. I already load 12g 3 1/2, plus I quite like the idea of using a more traditional gun. These things are normally built like tanks, the only reason they were not proofed to higher pressures is the shells did't exist. In fact some fast steel isn't as high pressure as you might suspect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Has anyone had any problems putting steel through 10g sbs? I'm assuming these guns aren't steel proofed. I've been think of going down the 10b route. I already load 12g 3 1/2, plus I quite like the idea of using a more traditional gun. They are built like tanks, they bored some 10 side/sides out to 8 ( tight 8 ) so i dare say they'd quite easily pass the proof for steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK fowler Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 take a look at balistic products web site - load of the week there are some interesting steel 10g loads on there. some use other powders than A STEEL I use one with longshot powder 11/4oz at 1600 fps it has been a super load for duck and iv shot the odd goose with 4mm steel. The lymans 5th edition shotshell reloading is a good sorce of steel 10g data though not the fastest the loads pattern well and are shoother to shoot through a sbs gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Iv'e a Ugartechea 10b SBS proofed as above, I intend to have it bored out this summer 1/4 and 1/2, for steel. are you happy with the choke or would you change it? I wouldn't have any choke bored out to quarter. I haven't found quarter to pattern well enough past 40 yards with steel. I think 1/2 and 3/4 might prove better. I think it can be better to have 'too much' choke for wildfowling than 'not enough'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Slack half an a tight half is all you need then mould your load around your gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I certainly won't be going less than half, bit stuffed if you get one bored out to 1/4 and then find you need abit more choke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Slack half an a tight half is all you need then mould your load around your gun My thoughts and choking exactly, when there is has a good blow on and the geese come fast and low with the wind up their tails you really can have too great a choke especially with steel which patterns so much tighter than lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 My thoughts and choking exactly, when there is has a good blow on and the geese come fast and low with the wind up their tails you really can have too great a choke especially with steel which patterns so much tighter than lead. But that's certainly not as much use when the pinks come over at 50-60 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 My thoughts and choking exactly, when there is has a good blow on and the geese come fast and low with the wind up their tails you really can have too great a choke especially with steel which patterns so much tighter than lead. Low geese? You'll have to show me some of those, don't seem many around here! Interestingly, i patterned a 34gram load of steel 3s through half choke in the 12 and it patterned similar to a lead load of same, certainly was significantly tighter. Could have just been those cartridges though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pestcontrol1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 But that's certainly not as much use when the pinks come over at 50-60 yards. cant comment on that never shot a pink but i have dropped a good hand full of grays at 50-60 yrds a couple of seasons ago with a mates ten choked slack an tight half it was his dads gun and he had it bored out when steel had to be used he uses it alot and dont seem to need any more choke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 But that's certainly not as much use when the pinks come over at 50-60 yards. If I was shooting at 60 yds I would get put before the committee for high shooting so that's fine by me Low geese? You'll have to show me some of those, don't seem many around here! Interestingly, i patterned a 34gram load of steel 3s through half choke in the 12 and it patterned similar to a lead load of same, certainly was significantly tighter. Could have just been those cartridges though A lot has to do with the load, not least the wad type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 If I was shooting at 60 yds I would get put before the committee for high shooting so that's fine by me A lot has to do with the load, not least the wad type It must be difficult with such strict rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't have any choke bored out to quarter. I haven't found quarter to pattern well enough past 40 yards with steel. I think 1/2 and 3/4 might prove better. I think it can be better to have 'too much' choke for wildfowling than 'not enough'. I'm going for greylag and very occasionally mallard, range between 30-45m. shot sizes 3, 1's, BB, currently only inland flight shooting and loading lead, choked full full, I can go on the shore sssi and need non toxic, my thinking was to have an open 1/4 with 3's and 1/2 with 1's, given the tighter pattern of steel I didn't want to possibly ruin the game on a close shot that sometimes does happen. appreciate the imput Oh yes i understand that once bored out there no way of getting it back Edited February 2, 2014 by islandgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I'm going for greylag and very occasionally mallard, range between 30-45m. shot sizes 3, 1's, BB, currently only inland flight shooting and loading lead, choked full full, I can go on the shore sssi and need non toxic, my thinking was to have an open 1/4 with 3's and 1/2 with 1's, given the tighter pattern of steel I didn't want to possibly ruin the game on a close shot that sometimes does happen. appreciate the imput Oh yes i understand that once bored out there no way of getting it back Personally i'd rather have too tight a choke and risk messing up the meat than be under choked at range. Anything is possible on the shore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatFreddysCat Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Don't forget that as steel is lighter than lead there is approx 30% more pellets/oz for steel. Even if you go up a shot size you still get approx 9% more pellets with steel. No.English Steel size mm Pellets/oz Steel Pellets/oz lead 1 3.75 130 100 2 3.5 154 120 3 3.25 192 140 4 3 243 170 Edited February 2, 2014 by FatFreddysCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Don't forget that as steel is lighter than lead there is approx 30% more pellets/oz for steel. Even if you go up a shot size you still get approx 9% more pellets with steel. No.English Steel size mm Pellets/oz Steel Pellets/oz lead 1 3.75 130 100 2 3.5 154 120 3 3.25 192 140 4 3 243 170 I forgot I've got 3kg of heavy type II 3.s and would like to try ITX or nice shot in the future, at the moment use some 3's lead but should have said a larger size in steel, one reason for changing to 10b was the potential for a larger number of shot in the air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I forgot I've got 3kg of heavy type II 3.s and would like to try ITX or nice shot in the future, at the moment use some 3's lead but should have said a larger size in steel, one reason for changing to 10b was the potential for a larger number of shot in the air Are you only using 10 for your wildfowling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Are you only using 10 for your wildfowling? All I have, (use a 4/10 for rabbits), Can say this though big mat it certainly is interesting Edited February 2, 2014 by islandgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 It must be difficult with such strict rules. Its difficult to get close to a deer, the fact I can shoot them many hundreds of yards away does not particularly appeal any more though. I must say the tight half barrel certainly produces the patterns to do the job with BBB, if I can might be another matter at present I cant shoot anything with a busted up left shoulder and only a few days left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 These chokes are fine with the right cartridge/load/shot size. See copy paste below from my earlier post. The percentages may seem low but these were patterned at 50yds. I've used the C&G 381 loads but have modified them a bit. I found 44gr 381 and 46gm (1 5/8oz) a bit lively in my AYA SBS so I've reduced the shot to 43gm using 3.25mm (No.3) shot. This gives a nice, dense pattern from my 1/4 and 1/2 chokes and gives clean kills on widgeon out to 50yds. Pellets in load = 288. At 50 yds on the pattern plate this gives 112 pellets (39%) in 30'' circle for 1/4 choke and 130 pellets (45%) for 1/2 choke. For goose loads I've reduced the powder to 42gr and used 46gm of 3.75mm (No.1) shot. Pellets in load = 211. Pellet counts at 50yd were 88 (41%) for 1/4 choke and 97 (46%) for 1/2 choke. The 30'' pellet counts don't tell the whole story as outside of the circle pellets were fairly evenly distributed and may have given a lethal pattern 36'' wide. I need to do more trials on this in the summer. Also want to try mica wad lube. My reason for going over to home loads was not only cost but dissatisfaction with factory loads. Using Remington Sportsman steel in No2 about half of the ducks I shot were not cleanly killed. I dismantled a shell and found that they were US No.2 = 3.81mm and had 173 pellets in the load. I didn't pattern these but using the % above I think I was getting 65 to 75 pellets in the 30 '' pattern at 50yds, way too open for duck. No problem with velocity/ energy as many of the ducks shot had pellets go clean through them. I just wonder if claimed velocity of 1500fps was blowing open an already thin pattern. After looking at some of my pattern sheets from a few months back, i'm not too impressed with your percentages. With my Browning Gold 10 and Terror choke (.705) I am getting around the 70% mark at 50 yards with steel and Hevishot. I can't get anywhere near that with the standard factory chokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatFreddysCat Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 After looking at some of my pattern sheets from a few months back, i'm not too impressed with your percentages. With my Browning Gold 10 and Terror choke (.705) I am getting around the 70% mark at 50 yards with steel and Hevishot. I can't get anywhere near that with the standard factory chokes. Very impressive. .705 seems to be a huge choke constriction from the standard 10 bore barrel diameter of .775. Just put a micrometer on mine and they are .745 and .755. Be interested to know what your loads are if you are able to post any data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Very impressive. .705 seems to be a huge choke constriction from the standard 10 bore barrel diameter of .775. Just put a micrometer on mine and they are .745 and .755. Be interested to know what your loads are if you are able to post any data. Most of the steel loads I use are from the RSI steel handbook. My favoured load at the moment is this - Federal case, Win 209 primer, 47gn Alliant steel, sam1 wad and 42 grams of steel. The speed is supposedly 1550 fps. A good hevishot load (I've used heavyweight 13, 3.8mm) - Federal case, Fed 209 primer, 41gn steel powder, TPS1035 wad, filler wads, mylar wrap, 20gn #47 buffer, overshot card and not forgetting 1 3/4 oz hevishot. 1355 fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted February 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Is there anyone else who sells cases for 10s other than claygame? If there isnt i'll pick up some cases when i go up there in a couple of weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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