Licence fees

[r1steele]

I think you are getting a tad silly now.the people who have been employed on the farm were at an age where they already had a driving license so do you think I should have paid in retrospect.a driving license is a personal thing and I would expect people to have their own already.how many jobs have you seen advertised for drivers where they needed no license already.i am up for debate but you are now picking holes where there are none.

No I'm not picking holes. Is a FAC/SGC not a personal thing. I had my SGC and FAC long before I left school and started working so I had to pay for them. When I mentioned being employed as opposed to being self employed regarding the cost of things you said that employers should supply all of the equipment needed. I was talking about the costs of licences not being as easy for some lower earners to absorb and that was you reply. Were you saying that employers should pay FAC/SGC costs as part of there obligations to provide everything needed to carry out there jobs correctly?

[r1steele]

 

If it is necessary for your work - I would suggest you can, but it would take a little bit of effort to get the relief.

 

As a pest controller you can but as an employed gamkeeper there is no tax relief on your FAC/SGC, self employed you can.

[bostonmick]

Yes as an employer I would pay for the renewals however I would put a condition that if they left within say two years the cost could be deducted from final pay.if I had taken on a lad to train he would have been fresh from school and no I would not have supplied him with a sgc straight off as he may not have made the grade.however after a year or so if he was learning and interested then yes I would have paid for his application.people did not leave my employ because they were looked after and treated right.good gamekeepers are rarely poor there are many perks within the job.

[HDAV]

Ok anyone know where these 5 trial areas are David BASC perhaps?

[kent]

Does g4s come under the competitive tender.because if so lincs police handed over to them and there has been no improvements that can be seen.i you look at the Las vacancy for a fao in lincs and the wages offered you might understand why they struggle to get people to do the job with any enthusiasm.competitive tender means lower wages for staff and higher profit for company.and a lesser service.

Not looking for advice from FEOs anyhow, just their job that's all! Competitive tender means quality of service and price is constantly under review with a chance of loss to a competitor who can do it better or cheaper. Handing it over is just what a dumb civil servant would do. Issue is the bosses have never worked in a competitive industry in their entire lives

[bostonmick]

Not looking for advice from FEOs anyhow, just their job that's all! Competitive tender means quality of service and price is constantly under review with a chance of loss to a competitor who can do it better or cheaper. Handing it over is just what a dumb civil servant would do. Issue is the bosses have never worked in a competitive industry in their entire lives

 

well that's a nice idea.however in the real world the competitive tender is where I as the customer tell a company or individual what I require and the standards and timeframe whether a one off or a fixed term.the company or the the individual then proceeds to tell me as many lies as they think I can swallow about how they can do a wonderfull job in half the time and for around a third of the price of the real professionals.i have experience on such matters over the years with getting quotes for work to be done around the farm and machinery.and the cheap option was not the best by any means and often worked out more expensive overall.the police are the ones that should handle firearms as they have all the information and expertise at hand.however they should be paid to do the job properly.their are oap's in this country having services withdrawn because of government cuts yet you believe firearms should be subsidised by the majority for the few.

[Scully]

We're just covering old ground again here, and it's just going to go round and round and round.

So with an impending sense of deja vue here goes again: the licensing system as we know it was brought in for the safety of the general public, NOT for the benefit of the shooter, and NOT as a revenue gathering exercise, nor for any other reason than the safety of the general public.The costs should therefore be met by the tax payer.

 

 

The Police are set a budget, it is their responsibility to provide a service (a service which they actively oppose being removed from their control) within that budget.

It is obvious some forces can administer a good service despite claiming they can't afford it, and others are seemingly incompetent. I wont pay for that if I can help it.

Whichever way you look at it, it is not for the Police to decide how much a license should cost, the very idea is ludicrous.

[kent]

well that's a nice idea.however in the real world the competitive tender is where I as the customer tell a company or individual what I require and the standards and timeframe whether a one off or a fixed term.the company or the the individual then proceeds to tell me as many lies as they think I can swallow about how they can do a wonderfull job in half the time and for around a third of the price of the real professionals.i have experience on such matters over the years with getting quotes for work to be done around the farm and machinery.and the cheap option was not the best by any means and often worked out more expensive overall.the police are the ones that should handle firearms as they have all the information and expertise at hand.however they should be paid to do the job properly.their are oap's in this country having services withdrawn because of government cuts yet you believe firearms should be subsidised by the majority for the few.

Yes i do think so, after all they keep changing the rules and it all does comparatively little against the real risk which is illegal gun ownership and illegal gun use.

I am not about to give business lessons here but a good buyer considers value not price, this is were most fall down. Best value comes from best price and service cheapest price is fine but does it come with best service, sometimes cheapest quote is also the best service sometimes its not (this is why people employ buyers)

[bostonmick]

Yes i do think so, after all they keep changing the rules and it all does comparatively little against the real risk which is illegal gun ownership and illegal gun use.

I am not about to give business lessons here but a good buyer considers value not price, this is were most fall down. Best value comes from best price and service cheapest price is fine but does it come with best service, sometimes cheapest quote is also the best service sometimes its not (this is why people employ buyers)

that's all well and good but in the case of the police service they farm out the fireams dept to save costs which in real terms is a profit for them the company doing the job has to earn a profit and all this has to be done where the applicant gets a better service and that has not changed its prices in some 12 years.i can think of nothing else that has gone down in price or not had a increase in that time.or is it that the holders of firearms who wish to pursue the sport for pleasure should be subsidised by the general public through their rates and taxes.everything in this life has to be paid for and cover the real cost.shooting not excluded.and if you think that mr Cameron is doing anything for our benefit then that's the next surprise awaiting many.

[Scully]

is it that the holders of firearms who wish to pursue the sport for pleasure should be subsidised by the general public through their rates and taxes.

Yes, for the simple reason that firearms are licensed for the safety of the general public.

[Dekers]

I am afraid that goes for all businesses in the real world.my farm was no different cost of fuel and equipment cost in the main was passed on as you say.however if your business is not able to absorb at least some of the 140 pounds quoted over a five year period then I respectfully suggest you find another way to earn a living.atb

 

I am in business to earn a living, I don't run a charity and cannot simply absorb every price increase that comes along from any supplier or the Government, they get passed on, if you want to run a charity and absorb every cost increase then fine, but don't expect me to!

[bostonmick]

so we have the public should pay as it is there to protect them,and the business that is run to earn a profit and the public should subsidise that also because?.perhaps they should sub your cartridges as well.also my range rover needs a brake overhaul and a mot in the interest of safety for the public perhaps they should pay for that as well.

[Dekers]

so we have the public should pay as it is there to protect them,and the business that is run to earn a profit and the public should subsidise that also because?.perhaps they should sub your cartridges as well.also my range rover needs a brake overhaul and a mot in the interest of safety for the public perhaps they should pay for that as well.

 

You seem to have a very odd take on business, are you seriously suggesting you have absorbed every cost increase you have faced in business since day one?

[Dekers]

I seem to recall this debate took place some months ago and you were more than happy to pay whatever was asked then, seems nothing has changed, that's fine, do what you want but don't expect the rest of us to follow like dumb sheep.

 

As I also said back in #10, as you are now saving a lot by not having to pay £196 let us all know the good cause you donate the balance to!

[David BASC]

I will check which forces are doing on line applications etc,

 

BASC got commitment from the HO last Autumn that fees would be held pending further investigation, not least of all to check the real costs of licencing, as we refused to accept the costs proposed by ACPO, not least of all because some forces are not efficient and its not fair to pay a higher price for an inefficient system, our position its as simple as that.

 

David

Edited February 10, 2014 by David BASC

[Dekers]

I will check which forces are doing on line applications etc,

 

BASC got commitment from the HO last Autumn that fees would be held pending further investigation, not least of all to check the real costs of licencing, as we refused to accept the costs proposed by ACPO, not least of all because some forces are not efficient and its not fair to pay a higher price for an inefficient system, our position its as simple as that.

 

David

 

[bostonmick]

 

You seem to have a very odd take on business, are you seriously suggesting you have absorbed every cost increase you have faced in business since day one?

no not at all increased costs were passed on as services have to be paid for and paid what they are worth.shooting is a luxury pastime and as such should be paid for by the person taking part.also business should survive on its own merits or go under I am afraid why should people who do not use your services have to pay to keep your costs down also I cant think of any pests that I would have had to pay someone with a firearm to clear after all there are enough out there desperate to get land to shoot over so pigeon crow magpie. fox and squirrels are cleared for free.rats can be poisoned or shot with an air rifle as they dwell around buildings mostly so air rifle safer and no cert needed.

[welsh1]

I will check which forces are doing on line applications etc,

 

BASC got commitment from the HO last Autumn that fees would be held pending further investigation, not least of all to check the real costs of licencing, as we refused to accept the costs proposed by ACPO, not least of all because some forces are not efficient and its not fair to pay a higher price for an inefficient system, our position its as simple as that.

 

David

Spot on

[bostonmick]

I seem to recall this debate took place some months ago and you were more than happy to pay whatever was asked then, seems nothing has changed, that's fine, do what you want but don't expect the rest of us to follow like dumb sheep.

 

As I also said back in #10, as you are now saving a lot by not having to pay £196 let us all know the good cause you donate the balance to!

I donate to two cancer charity's and also great Ormond hospital although I don't see that it is any of your business have done for the past ten years on a monthly basis.a lot of these do not get help from government to save lives and have to survive on donations from the public to do so.but as you say your cost of certificate is a higher priority for subsidy. perhaps as you are also saving by the same amount you could donate as well.

[Dekers]

no not at all increased costs were passed on as services have to be paid for and paid what they are worth.shooting is a luxury pastime and as such should be paid for by the person taking part.also business should survive on its own merits or go under I am afraid why should people who do not use your services have to pay to keep your costs down also I cant think of any pests that I would have had to pay someone with a firearm to clear after all there are enough out there desperate to get land to shoot over so pigeon crow magpie. fox and squirrels are cleared for free.rats can be poisoned or shot with an air rifle as they dwell around buildings mostly so air rifle safer and no cert needed.

 

Like I said, you have a very strange notion of business, are you seriously suggesting a National Supermarket gets in some local desperate to play with their air rifle to deal with pigeons on their shop floor, or a VERY large Aerospace company gets in someone desperate to try their luck and shoot a bird at 80 yards sitting on £12,000,000 of equipment, or the Navy gets the first person who turns up to shoot deer at a High Security Helicopter development/repair site, or a leading Pharmaceutical companies VERY high security Animal testing site advertises for locals to try their luck in their extensive manicured grounds, or a local Authority calls in some lad to remove a fox from a third floor office because he is desperate to do it for free, etc etc., Do you have any idea what a method statement or Risk assessment are, do you have any idea how much paperwork and surveys goes into almost every Pest Control job these days, do you have any concept of reputation, another pest control company came to me and asked if I could deal with the aerospace job, they had the tools and the men, but none had the balls to do it?

 

Strange as it may seem there is a world outside the farm that requires specialist services.

 

You stick to your charitable work and let those of us who can ... do!

Edited February 10, 2014 by Dekers

[Dekers]

I donate to two cancer charity's and also great Ormond hospital although I don't see that it is any of your business have done for the past ten years on a monthly basis.a lot of these do not get help from government to save lives and have to survive on donations from the public to do so.but as you say your cost of certificate is a higher priority for subsidy. perhaps as you are also saving by the same amount you could donate as well.

 

No chap, I'm not saving a penny my clients are saving the money because I have no increased charges to pass on.

[bostonmick]

 

No chap, I'm not saving a penny my clients are saving the money because I have no increased charges to pass on.

 

well I will say again if your business or your clients could not stand an increase in cost between you all of around 50pence a week overall then you really need to look at your business plan again.everything in life goes up its called inflation your customers prices go up in their business. their wages go up if employed..

[Dekers]

 

well I will say again if your business or your clients could not stand an increase in cost between you all of around 50pence a week overall then you really need to look at your business plan again.everything in life goes up its called inflation your customers prices go up in their business. their wages go up if employed..

 

Ok, which other costs do you suggest I absorb, like you say, costs go up, its called inflation and when my costs go up enough they get passed on, which part of that don't you understand, tell Asda, Tesco, the Energy suppliers, etc etc they really need to look at their business plan if they can't all absorb a few cost increases, and tell all their customers they need to stop complaining and just pay up!

Edited February 10, 2014 by Dekers

[bostonmick]

 

Like I said, you have a very strange notion of business, are you seriously suggesting a National Supermarket gets in some local desperate to play with their air rifle to deal with pigeons on their shop floor, or a VERY large Aerospace company gets in someone desperate to try their luck and shoot a bird at 80 yards sitting on £12,000,000 of equipment, or the Navy gets the first person who turns up to shoot deer at a High Security Helicopter development/repair site, or a leading Pharmaceutical companies VERY high security Animal testing site advertises for locals to try their luck in their extensive manicured grounds, or a local Authority calls in some lad to remove a fox from a third floor office because he is desperate to do it for free, etc etc., Do you have any idea what a method statement or Risk assessment are, do you have any idea how much paperwork and surveys goes into almost every Pest Control job these days, do you have any concept of reputation, another pest control company came to me and asked if I could deal with the aerospace job, they had the tools and the men, but none had the balls to do it?

 

Strange as it may seem there is a world outside the farm that requires specialist services.

 

You stick to your charitable work and let those of us who can ... do!

 

 

I see now why your customers could not stand a small increase as they are only multi nationals and armed forces.and yes mate I know what a risk assessment and method statement is done hundreds of them I know just how worthless they are in the real world.i am a little curious as to how you shoot a pigeon off a 12,000,000 pound piece of equipment with a shotgun or rifle without damaging anything else as the spread of shot or the bullet would go straight through.but as you say you are the expert,and with expertise comes higher cost.

[Dekers]

If you want to pay the full cost of renewal then go and pay your region the £196, I am sure they will be grateful, or give the extra to some good cause, have I ever suggested you shouldn't, but kindly do not tell me how to run my business, or spend my money for me or tell me what my clients can afford to pay!