pavman Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I can rarely set singles over waist deep I assume your setting from the bank? Edited February 19, 2014 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I assume your setting from the bank? As in not from a boat = yes! some places there is no water till tide others there is, some places its wadeable others not . I really do have quite a few ways of going about this at different venues, though boats don't come into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) If you are setting your decoys from a boat Pavman its a whole different ball game. I use singles when decoying on a Broad and we just row round and pick them up by hand at the end of flight, but it can take a long time in a strong wind. Its difficult holding the boat in position and retriving single decoysa the same time when you are by yourself. I also use singles on the larger dykes and where the current is not too strong on the rivers , but when decoying the lower rivers close to Breydon the tide is strong and the water 10-15 feet deep so again I use a mother line. Edited February 19, 2014 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 If you are setting your decoys from a boat Pavman its a whole different ball game. I use singles when decoying on a Broad and we just row round and pick them up by hand at the end of flight, but it can take a long time in a strong wind. Its difficult holding the boat in position and retriving single decoysa the same time when you are by yourself. I also use singles on the larger dykes and where the current is not too strong on the rivers , but when decoying the lower rivers close to Breydon the tide is strong and the water 10-15 feet deep so again I use a mother line. hi Anser..... yep I think its just a case of what works for each of us, I have a boat (16ft sneak boat and have been fowling the river Alde for over 10 years) which runs hard and fast...... I also shoot Breydon and Norfolk Broads and the River Waveney. I have no probs setting whatever deeks I want in most tides single handed and retrieving them with a grapple which consists of a 8oz fishing weight with the prongs bound so they cant collapse. This is on a winder of 50 yards of line. The only difficulty I have is when there is not enough water to run the boat where I want it but to much to wade.... I have mud pattens as a back up but it can be a pain as you can end up tired and everything is muddy before you start..... Setting from boat I just drop a mud weight and hang in the tide then hand throw my deeks into position either side, but I almost always retrieve them from the bank and this can be 30 to 40 yards, I miss snagging now and again but no often and 12 singles takes little more than 15 mins to retrieve and I am happy with that.... what do think of me boat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 The boat looks ideal , the ones we use at Rockland are wider and can catch the wind , also we have to row by hand as we are not allowed to use an outboard motor. Which in a strong wind makes retrieving all the harder. I have tried a mother line in this situation , but it does not work with a real risk of the decoys all bunching togeather if the wind changes or drops so singles are the best option . As other have said we all have our different methods of decoys and doubtless most will work in a given situation. One thing though there are times when we cant spend 15 mins retrieving decoys. On a spring tide with a backing north wind on the N Norfolk coast you can be up to your thighs in water in 15 mins , which is no fun when you still have a mile to walk off the marsh , the tide at your heels and with the knowledge that you have to find the one bridge across the main creek in the dark or you are in real trouble. I can retrieve 8-10 decoys and stow them in the kit bag with a motherline in much less than 5 mins. Or as I have done a couple of times pushed the motherline stick deep into the mud and return the next day knowing the stick will teather the decoys and they will still be there after the tide drops off. Paveman , I too shoot the lower river Wavenly within a mile of Breydon and am still trying to find an ideal method to set my decoys. The tide realy rips down this section of the river and though I have not tried single decoys in this section of the river I suspect even when using 8 oz leads with grapples there is a high risk of the leads slipping. If they do slip its not easy to follow them down river to retrieve them with a grapple. A mother line with two spaced 8oz leads will just hold with no more than 3 decoys and at least if the leads slip you can still easily get the decoys back. There is a problem however , the river bank is shrouded in thick reeds and with one or two exceptions its hard to find a place to chuck out the leads without the uncoiled lines snagging on the reed stems as you release the lead. Any one any thoughts on this one?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 This perhaps, although there may still be the issue with uncoiled lines. The boat looks ideal , the ones we use at Rockland are wider and can catch the wind , also we have to row by hand as we are not allowed to use an outboard motor. Which in a strong wind makes retrieving all the harder. I have tried a mother line in this situation , but it does not work with a real risk of the decoys all bunching togeather if the wind changes or drops so singles are the best option . As other have said we all have our different methods of decoys and doubtless most will work in a given situation. One thing though there are times when we cant spend 15 mins retrieving decoys. On a spring tide with a backing north wind on the N Norfolk coast you can be up to your thighs in water in 15 mins , which is no fun when you still have a mile to walk off the marsh , the tide at your heels and with the knowledge that you have to find the one bridge across the main creek in the dark or you are in real trouble. I can retrieve 8-10 decoys and stow them in the kit bag with a motherline in much less than 5 mins. Or as I have done a couple of times pushed the motherline stick deep into the mud and return the next day knowing the stick will teather the decoys and they will still be there after the tide drops off. Paveman , I too shoot the lower river Wavenly within a mile of Breydon and am still trying to find an ideal method to set my decoys. The tide realy rips down this section of the river and though I have not tried single decoys in this section of the river I suspect even when using 8 oz leads with grapples there is a high risk of the leads slipping. If they do slip its not easy to follow them down river to retrieve them with a grapple. A mother line with two spaced 8oz leads will just hold with no more than 3 decoys and at least if the leads slip you can still easily get the decoys back. There is a problem however , the river bank is shrouded in thick reeds and with one or two exceptions its hard to find a place to chuck out the leads without the uncoiled lines snagging on the reed stems as you release the lead. Any one any thoughts on this one?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have always used a mother-line system. However I have to admit that Pavman is a ruddy good shot with his grappling hook. Far better than he is with his semi-auto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have always used a mother-line system. However I have to admit that Pavman is a ruddy good shot with his grappling hook. Far better than he is with his semi-auto! I thought you may have something to add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Pavman , I too shoot the lower river Wavenly within a mile of Breydon and am still trying to find an ideal method to set my decoys. The tide realy rips down this section of the river and though I have not tried single decoys in this section of the river I suspect even when using 8 oz leads with grapples there is a high risk of the leads slipping. Any one any thoughts on this one?. Yep couple of things, you can use a back lead and tether from the bank (Penelope has kindly provided a picture) the back lead slides down the line and nails it to the bottom this cuts down on water flow contact with the line and so there is less pressure that shifts the deek out of place. I have never needed more than 3oz (never with grips) to hold bottom in any tide so my thoughts are some folk that get drift may be using the wrong line. I have two types a plastic tangle free for shallow water and a Braid (very thin) for deep water. For deep water I use Redhead braided camo line (I got it from Bass pro in USA) its soft and very strong and the water slides past rather than pushing against it. The problem is the water pressure on the line as much or more so than on the deek and its this action that shifts with the tide pulling the deeks out of place. I don't put my dogs into key headed areas of the river (they cant get out) or into areas closed off by the reed beds...... I just avoid those spots Grandalff has taught me many things over the years and the best is not to use bail twine on your deeks just because you have 25000 yards in the barn oh yea and the other one is don't visit the Ouse Washes with him..... he tripped me up and broke my ankle on the mud flats then had to carry me off on a flooding tide (I weigh 16 stone) Edited February 20, 2014 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 No its sometimes it is not possible to hold when fishing with 6-7oz grip leads fishing with 0.35mm line, different venues need different systems. I shoot one creek and a bore comes up that adds about 5-6ft on a spring tide it literally comes up it in one big wave and i use a full on boat anchor that held by 15 ft boat and it still drags, the first couple of mallard deeks often go under for the first 1/2 hr or so (I mean right under). On another venue I use what I call a drag line so I can keep my decoys in gunshot as the tide makes much slower (a rope loop with a number of leads on it) I can hurl this thing a long way from the shore and just keep backing up dragging it along with me when I need to move from getting washed out my hole. Another I use a modified 8" metal peg to hold in a good pull of tide yet allow me to heave it out without having to wait for the low as were once was dry is under 25 ft of water within 2 hrs. ITS ALL ON VENUE, its easy to think a guy a fool till you have tried on his spots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Who is a fool Kent have I missed something...... Last posts was the Waveney and Breydon I think it's well established your set up is venue specific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I`m sure most of us who may have to retrieve decoys from a boat have already thought of this, but if you have`nt - make a 1" deep saw cut about half way up the edge of the oars blade and another saw cut, about 3" long at 45 degrees to that, sloping towards the oars handle,fair the resultant cut out with sandpaper to give a smooth finish. Even in the dark you have only to run the blade,edge upwards, under the decoy line to be sure of snagging it in the cut out on the oar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Hi or you could fit a boat hook to your paddle With the added bonus that the weight makes it easier to sink and stand. Upright in the water All the best Of Photo is of one I found in a boat shed according to old owner it's about 80 years old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sorry first pic didn't show paddle blade All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Who is a fool Kent have I missed something...... Last posts was the Waveney and Breydon I think it's well established your set up is venue specific I was saying its easy to "Think a guy a fool" that is calling nobody a fool, its a look inwards . My "method"is not venue specific because I have a few ways for different venues I seriously doubted another member previously on such a thread who held with what I see as no real amount of anchor at all until I read what others get away with. Yes all these rigs need to be venue based. The diameter of the line has some bearing on the amount of weight or side / type of anchor as you say, but once you need a certain amount to hold bottom you also need something you can break it out with and that sometimes means a fair amount of pressure. For instance you wont break a large anchor out with paracord because it too thin to apply pressure with even if it is strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Kent Its mad how location makes such a huge difference to how we rig up....... It sounds like you have a very challenging situation and I am very intrigued.... not least of all for how your dogs get on etc...... Have you got any pics/vid you can put up..... sounds like us pussies down here have got it easy Edited February 21, 2014 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Kent Its mad how location makes such a huge difference to how we rig up....... It sounds like you have a very challenging situation and I am very intrigued.... not least of all for how your dogs get on etc...... Have you got any pics/vid you can put up..... sounds like us pussies down here have got it easy Firstly any dog that goes in on the bore I mention just aint coming back! A dog with any brains soon learns by just seeing it (my current dog ran straight for that gutter and jumped in at any opportunity until he first saw that wave rip up it when he actually barked at it and the dog in question BTW is almost mute) you have to ignore most of the duck that flush in just in front of it however tempting and expected an event. If you look at the BASC vid "the long retrieve" that is another venue, you see the deeks surfing on the mainline but actually this is quite mild compared to other venues (again you keep the dog out of the water at peak flow) Now trust me I doubt any dog could get either way across that (Taylors gutter on the Dee) for a duck during peak flow. In fact the last time I took a guest there I had to tell him to not shoot over the water till I said the tide was ok for the dog, I think he was a little surprised how early I said fine although shortly afterwards he did fail on one and was called off as he started to tire but that was due to constant diving. Its not all big flows though in the NWest many venues can still be handled on conventional single rigged decoys. Sorry I don't do vids and photos on-line (luddite issues) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Thanks all, but it’s the uncoiled lines that are the problem snagging around the reed stems and its a problem with both methods. Pavman , some of the river banks are 100% lined with thick reedbeds so its not an option to find a reed free spot. At the moment I just have to forget about decoys and just flight the duck and geese moving up or down the river. Fortunately there a number of bays so the dog has little problem getting out of the river even with a big greylag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Thanks all, but it’s the uncoiled lines that are the problem snagging around the reed stems and its a problem with both methods. Pavman , some of the river banks are 100% lined with thick reedbeds so its not an option to find a reed free spot. At the moment I just have to forget about decoys and just flight the duck and geese moving up or down the river. Fortunately there a number of bays so the dog has little problem getting out of the river even with a big greylag. So have you seen cowboys rope throwing considerable distances from a rope coiled in their non throwing hand? Another thought is to incorporate an otter board (sometime referred to as a planer board) its used in trolling lures from a boat avoiding the prop wash area, put it in the water and it cuts into the flow under tension hence taking it out, just an idea mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Thanks Kent , I will have a think about this before next season. Looks as though o might have to get myself a cowboy hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Large fixed spool fishing reel with about 18" of 'rod' with just the end ring fixed. Hold that in your left hand and throw with your right. Large spool means you can wind on a fair length of nylon cord - type to suit your taste. If you need both hands to throw, then make sure the 'rod' has enough butt to push into the ground. With the bail-arm open the line will just play straight out. I have used this with a mother-line and a retrieval system. (Grapnel). You cannot throw it as far as you would by laying the line out on the ground but you avoid tangles and snags. It's worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 thanks , it looks as though I might have to take up fishing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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