Fisheruk Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 i think the numbers speak for themselves, GB paid a terrible price in WW2 but put it into context Maybe it was down to our better military!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Scotland, own "parliament" plus MPs at Westminster who can vote on matters that only affect England. Wales, own "parliament" plus MPs at Westminster who can vote on matters that only affect England. Northern Ireland, own "parliament" plus MPs at Westminster who can vote on matters that only affect England. England, MPs at Westminster. A little equality in the status quo would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 i think the numbers speak for themselves, GB paid a terrible price in WW2 but put it into context The above makes no reference to percentages of population. It also fails to mention the Netherlands who suffered a particularly nasty occupation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 When the Salmond Roadshow fails to win independence, does that meant he irritating man will go away and leave us to get along with our lives?? No, we will never hear the end of it. It is al lose lose situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 ... I'd prefer to stay where we are but voting ? we all should have that Scots,Welsh, Northern Irish and England, the break up should be by all of us choosing - we are / were all in this together. Except that the issue being voted on is not the break up of the union but one nation's choice whether or not to remain part of it. If the question in the referendum was: "Should the UK be broken up?", that would certainly be a matter for all UK citizens. But it isn't. The question is one club member asking itself whether it wishes to remain a member. If you are considering resigning your membership of a club, other members may express an opinion on your decision but it is not their place to dictate whether or not to let you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Equally, if you leave the club, don't expect to still have access to the facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Equally, if you leave the club, don't expect to still have access to the facilities. Problem is - as British Citizens, they will still have access to many facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Equally, if you leave the club, don't expect to still have access to the facilities. True that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Salmond and his pals are idiots, and anyone else that believes the nationalistic drivel is, I'm afraid, tarred with the same brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misser Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 chrisjh...............words fail me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Problem is - as British Citizens, they will still have access to many facilities. They won't be British, they'll be Scottish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 They won't be British, they'll be Scottish. Only if they renounce their British Citizenship. As an example, the UK has one of the largest network of Diplomatic Missions in the world (Embassies and Consulates to you and me). Scotland would find it quite difficult to replicate this (at least any time quickly). If you were in a spot of bother while in some foreign land, and no 'Scottish' embassy was around, what would you do? Ah - bring out the British passport. It's like having your cake and eating it, and you didn't even have to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Except that the issue being voted on is not the break up of the union but one nation's choice whether or not to remain part of it. If the question in the referendum was: "Should the UK be broken up?", that would certainly be a matter for all UK citizens. But it isn't. The question is one club member asking itself whether it wishes to remain a member. If you are considering resigning your membership of a club, other members may express an opinion on your decision but it is not their place to dictate whether or not to let you go.Gimlet - I take your point but even one leaving breaks up the Union, does it not ? So give everyone a chance to drop out or everyone a chance to vote on everyone elses proposal (individually ) to leave. We all 'own' it (GB Inc), we should all decide on its break up. Just MHO. Can you see the shareholders of a conglomerate allowing the shareholders of one company to be the only ones who voted to become an independent company? I feel you have it wrong in your approach - theres a first time for everything. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 chrisjh...............words fail me why ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Only if they renounce their British Citizenship. As an independent state it would be up to the UK government as to whether they would be allowed dual citizenship and retain a British passport. As it stands at the moment that's nowhere near a done deal. Edited February 23, 2014 by poontang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I live and was born in England. 3/4 grandparents come from Scotland, they moved down to work in the mines. My wife is Scottish, I spend quiet a bit of time in Scotland, with many friends. I believe in the union. If Scotland choose to leave, it's been democratic, if scots ain't happy, get on with it or move to England. However - When it goes tits up, Scotland come back to the union on different terms, the remainder of the union vote on. The Scottish parliament dropped being essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aris Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 As an independent state it would be up to the UK government as to whether they would be allowed dual citizenship and retain a British passport. As it stands at the moment that's nowhere near a done deal. Britain allows dual citizenship. I can't see how they could force Scottish citizenship, and renunciation of British citizenship on those who do not want it. Remember, if Scotland vote yes by 51%, there are 49% who voted no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Equally, if you leave the club, don't expect to still have access to the facilities. Absolutely. Gimlet - I take your point but even one leaving breaks up the Union, does it not ? So give everyone a chance to drop out or everyone a chance to vote on everyone elses proposal (individually ) to leave. We all 'own' it (GB Inc), we should all decide on its break up. Just MHO. Can you see the shareholders of a conglomerate allowing the shareholders of one company to be the only ones who voted to become an independent company? I feel you have it wrong in your approach - theres a first time for everything. Cheers. Not really. One member cashing in their portfolio and walking away doesn't wind up the whole company. It might alter the value of the stock held by the remaining shareholders (it may well enhance it) and therefore they have a right to an audit and an EGM where they should be afforded the opportunity to approve the final balance sheet. But they can't veto the free will of a fellow shareholder. In any case, this is a union of four partners, not two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeds chimp Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 why do people think GB had such a big influence on WW2, we did our "bit" but in all honesty speaking German or not is down to the Russia eastern front & American finance and troops our only real contribution to the cold war was offing the US a strategic air base think you really do need to study WW2 more as there are LOADS of factors in it.... Maybe it was down to our better military!! :lol: Only if they renounce their British Citizenship. As an example, the UK has one of the largest network of Diplomatic Missions in the world (Embassies and Consulates to you and me). Scotland would find it quite difficult to replicate this (at least any time quickly). If you were in a spot of bother while in some foreign land, and no 'Scottish' embassy was around, what would you do? Ah - bring out the British passport. It's like having your cake and eating it, and you didn't even have to pay. good point...i know of loads of people that have been helped while abroad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) The Scottish government intends to bring in a separate Scottish passport under independence, but says Scots would be free either to retain their British passport, or hold both. That said, UK Home Secretary Theresa May says the Westminster government may not allow Scottish dual citizenship, adding that the issue will be considered along with SNP policy on citizenship, and membership of the EU. The above is taken from a question and answer session conducted by BBC Scotland in November 2013. If anything the UK governments stance will have hardened since then. Edited February 23, 2014 by poontang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Absolutely. Not really. One member cashing in their portfolio and walking away doesn't wind up the whole company. It might alter the value of the stock held by the remaining shareholders (it may well enhance it) and therefore they have a right to an audit and an EGM where they should be afforded the opportunity to approve the final balance sheet. But they can't veto the free will of a fellow shareholder. In any case, this is a union of four partners, not two. I was talking about a conglomerate and shareholders in individual companies - still think you have the wrong of it. Just MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 do the english care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjh Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 think you really do need to study WW2 more as there are LOADS of factors in it.... i have and the facts are supported by academic evidence in the UK & America the vast majority of German causalities were on the eastern front Proportions, however, are crucial. Since 75%-80% of all German losses were inflicted on the eastern front it follows that the efforts of the western allies accounted for only 20%-25%. Furthermore, since the British Army deployed no more than 28 divisions as compared with the American army’s 99, the British contribution to victory must have been in the region of 5%-6%. Britons who imagine that “we won the war” need to think again. simple facts we did our bit and we should be rightly proud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey1875 Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 Only if they renounce their British Citizenship. As an example, the UK has one of the largest network of Diplomatic Missions in the world (Embassies and Consulates to you and me). Scotland would find it quite difficult to replicate this (at least any time quickly). If you were in a spot of bother while in some foreign land, and no 'Scottish' embassy was around, what would you do? Ah - bring out the British passport. It's like having your cake and eating it, and you didn't even have to pay. On that account should Scotland then not receive 1/4 embassy's? Or whatever proportion already paid for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 24, 2014 Report Share Posted February 24, 2014 So many good points raised on this forum, my main hope is that all these points have already been thrashed out by the governments. if not why not? or is it a case that politicians aren't massively bright and are just winging it until payday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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