Getting Frustrated!

[peek-at]

So....bought myself a pre-owned CZ452 17hmr in good nick with a load of ammo.

Spent ages trying to zero in without much success until i noticed that about a third of the ammo had splits in the necks. These were all discarded so I was back with decent ammo (hornady 17 grain v-max)

 

Went out last night and got 3 rabbits one being out at about 90yds (couldn't find or missed another 3 or 4)

 

As this morning was very still, I went out with some targets to learn what the drops are at varying ranges and after tweaking the zero a tad I was bang on at 100yds. I was delighted to be only a quarter inch below that at 120yds

 

not a great photo but 1 at 100yds in centre....2 touching just below at 120yds-virtually no wind

 

 

I went back to 140yds and it all started going to rat ****.....shots opened up in a line left to right along the 2" drop line..... may have been the breeze picking up so went back in closer, thinking I could start again from the point in photo 1 above and work my way out more gradually, but got this!

 

 

NOT HAPPY... .... there was only a very slight breeze left to right (4 or 5 mph?) not enough to affect grouping like this I would have thought.

Checked the moderator and its fine - no signs of clipping

checked all fixings on scope - all fine

 

I then decided to give it a clean. First I gave it a clean with a home made patch worm until patches were clean........Then went to work with the rod, KG 112 solvent brush and patches. It was still dirty after the initial clean so I really went to town on it and I am now confident it REALLY IS clean.

(I even saw a tiny fleck of copper coloured metal on a patch)

 

Could this have been my problem?

 

unfortunately I don't have time now to go out and check it again so I'm just hoping that my initial accuracy (photo 1) comes back to me!

 

:unsure: Shaun

Edited March 11, 2014 by peek-at

[casts_by_fly]

 

NOT HAPPY... .... there was only a very slight breeze left to right (4 or 5 mph?) not enough to affect grouping like this I would have thought.

 

 

You thought wrong. At 100 yards a 10 mph full value wind is about 3 1/2". That means a variance of 2 mph is enough for nearly 3/4". Can you tell the difference between 3 mph and 5 mph? How about 5 and 7? The most slight differences will affect the HMR, which is why it isn't a long range or target punching bullet.

 

thanks,

rick

[peek-at]

 

 

You thought wrong. At 100 yards a 10 mph full value wind is about 3 1/2". That means a variance of 2 mph is enough for nearly 3/4". Can you tell the difference between 3 mph and 5 mph? How about 5 and 7? The most slight differences will affect the HMR, which is why it isn't a long range or target punching bullet.

 

thanks,

rick

 

Surely though I would have retained my grouping but just a bit of wind drift over to the right?.... From being bang on it was all over the place.

[colin lad]

Just because it was a steady mph breeze at your end don't mean it was the same all the way down the path the bullet travels

as said above a slight change could make 3/4 difference,

how big were the group's??

just a thought

 

colin

[peek-at]

Just because it was a steady mph breeze at your end don't mean it was the same all the way down the path the bullet travels

as said above a slight change could make 3/4 difference,

how big were the group's??

just a thought

 

colin

 

2 inch from being clover leaf...........

[Underdog]

All 17 cal rifles other than airguns that use jacketed ammo will absolutely not tolerate much copper fouling at all! Those tiny bores and the fine rifling are soon fouled beyond an acceptable amount for those bullets.

Every 20rds get the copper solvent out. Every outing lube the barrel on your return. Before the next outing remove the lubing. That way you may have a chance of consistent performance for years!

 

U.

[magman]

To be fair i would say the HMR is a 100 yrd rifle , beyond that get a hornet imho

[casts_by_fly]

All 17 cal rifles other than airguns that use jacketed ammo will absolutely not tolerate much copper fouling at all! Those tiny bores and the fine rifling are soon fouled beyond an acceptable amount for those bullets.

Every 20rds get the copper solvent out. Every outing lube the barrel on your return. Before the next outing remove the lubing. That way you may have a chance of consistent performance for years!

 

U.

I know where you're coming from (17 and 20 cal groove depth isn't as deep as bigger guns) but don't see it with my hornet yet. I've shot 300 or so through it and its never been cleaned. No dropoff in accuracy yet. Not saying it won't happen, but I certainly won't be cleaning it every 20 rounds.

 

thanks

rick

[Underdog]

I know where you're coming from (17 and 20 cal groove depth isn't as deep as bigger guns) but don't see it with my hornet yet. I've shot 300 or so through it and its never been cleaned. No dropoff in accuracy yet. Not saying it won't happen, but I certainly won't be cleaning it every 20 rounds.

 

thanks

rick

17 Hornet yeah? If so that's outstanding!

There is often an exception.

Do watch out for condensation though!

[Dekers]

A clean barrel will tend to be a good idea and shoot well, but the wind is always a factor, even a gentle breeze will move the bullet, and more so over distance of course, you will also be getting tired, and don't forget a bit of luck/fortune comes into shooting as well.

Just because you put 2 in the same hole today, doesn't mean you can do it every day!

[kyska]

A clean barrel will tend to be a good idea and shoot well, but the wind is always a factor, even a gentle breeze will move the bullet, and more so over distance of course, you will also be getting tired, and don't forget a bit of luck/fortune comes into shooting as well.

 

Just because you put 2 in the same hole today, doesn't mean you can do it every day!

 

^^^This.

 

I consider myself a reasonable shot, but some of these chaps pulling off head shots at 150+ with hmr are a world away from my capabilities, I must also agree with magman, 100 yards is a sure fire thing with hmr, any further with any amount of wind, then things get a bit squirrely.

[peek-at]

Well I settled into the HMR using paper (and a new batch of ammo which didn't have split necks) and I have now had two early mornings on the rabbits. I'm really quite impressed with it.......

Now that I'm used to it I am comfortable shooting out to 140 yards, but I dont think I will attempt anything further than that.

I am running a bore snake through it after each outing and am planning to give it a thorough clean every 100 rounds or so.

 

[kent]

So....bought myself a pre-owned CZ452 17hmr in good nick with a load of ammo.

Spent ages trying to zero in without much success until i noticed that about a third of the ammo had splits in the necks. These were all discarded so I was back with decent ammo (hornady 17 grain v-max)

 

Went out last night and got 3 rabbits one being out at about 90yds (couldn't find or missed another 3 or 4)

 

As this morning was very still, I went out with some targets to learn what the drops are at varying ranges and after tweaking the zero a tad I was bang on at 100yds. I was delighted to be only a quarter inch below that at 120yds

 

not a great photo but 1 at 100yds in centre....2 touching just below at 120yds-virtually no wind

 

 

I went back to 140yds and it all started going to rat ****.....shots opened up in a line left to right along the 2" drop line..... may have been the breeze picking up so went back in closer, thinking I could start again from the point in photo 1 above and work my way out more gradually, but got this!

 

 

NOT HAPPY... .... there was only a very slight breeze left to right (4 or 5 mph?) not enough to affect grouping like this I would have thought.

Checked the moderator and its fine - no signs of clipping

checked all fixings on scope - all fine

 

I then decided to give it a clean. First I gave it a clean with a home made patch worm until patches were clean........Then went to work with the rod, KG 112 solvent brush and patches. It was still dirty after the initial clean so I really went to town on it and I am now confident it REALLY IS clean.

(I even saw a tiny fleck of copper coloured metal on a patch)

 

Could this have been my problem?

 

unfortunately I don't have time now to go out and check it again so I'm just hoping that my initial accuracy (photo 1) comes back to me!

 

:unsure: Shaun

 

Wind! Also the fact that its 40 yards further. The further out you get the greater the wind deflection curve.

to illustrate this latter point a bit clearer

At 100 yards I have 1" of wind as a full value 10mph on the .243 win 55 grn

At 200 yards the same wind moves it 4" NOT 2"

Sorry I am not fully up to quoting HMR figures off my head now as its about 4 yrs from the time I owned one (I also thought the far bigger far faster example might illustrate you cant fully out gun wind) Remember 1" at 100 with about three times the bullet weight and nearly twice as fast

 

The .17 HMR is a cracking gun to learn wind reading with as you will hardly ever find conditions were wind will not in some way act upon it at only 100 yards. Winds channel and might not even exist at the firing point. One of my main practice areas has a RL movement at the firing point on a westerly to about 200 yards + then the same wind will often channel round into a LR wind till just shy of 400, fun but the more distant switch is mostly traveling faster on a slower bullet, so you need to look for mirage or movement in the vegetation etc. You will get used to it but before that time try and not blame the gun, shooting on nil value all the time will only create boredom anyhow