Outbuilding construction

[ME]

Morning all,

 

I am in the process of trying to get quotes for a garden outbuilding. I want the main structure built from bricks & blocks but the front elevation (the only bit we see from the house) to be clad in timber.

 

I am limited on floor space but need it to be as warm as possible.

 

My question is how to include the insulation:

 

1) Construct double skin blockwork, insulate the cavity and baton & clad the outside front.

 

2) Single skin blockwork, clad the outside front and stud the inside, insulate and plasterboard.

 

3) Single skin blockwork, use large batons / stud on the outside, insulate the outside and clad over. (would need to clad all the outside)

 

 

Also, I am looking to construct from two courses of engineering bricks, a DPC and the rest in block up to a height of about 2.2 metres. There are two building areas, one is 6 x 4 metres and one is 3 x 3 metres with no windows but doors in the front of both areas. I would be interested to know an estimate at cost. It seems most of our local builders are too busy to even quote.

 

 

Thanks all

 

 

[Scully]

Tradis panel fully insulated with Warmcel.

[happy.plinker]

Up in the cold north here most new houses are single 4" block on the outside then studs and Kingspan insulation boards and silver bubble wrap stuff over it then,the studs are 8x2"/ 6x2 whatever , with sterlingboard outside first then build up the blocks.Loft's have about 12" of rosckwool laid one way then the other. And any outside wood cladding we're using Siberian Larch boarding 16mm or 25mm put on vertical with smaller strips over the joins, it's beautiful wood guaranteed for 50 years just bare! you'll get it cheaper where you are I'd guess, this may be overkill for an outbuilding though, oh and make it as big as you can afford or get away with.

[team tractor]

We do stuff like this all the time and were a joinery company . I can't price but I will say try googling it for your area.

Try more than just a builder

[team tractor]

http://www.riversidejoinery.biz/joinery_misc.html

 

We've put full power with its own board and insulation in buildings so try a local joinery company ?

[Gimlet]

If you want only one elevation to be cladded you really need a cavity construction which will give you a minimum of 11" overall wall thickness for unrendered blockwork. But that's the most expensive construction method and will take up the most space. Without cladding you'll struggle to keep single leaf blockwork reliably weather-proof. If you were cladding the whole building my preference would be to insulate the outside of single leaf 5" block work and clad over the top. If you're restricted by your overall footprint you'll lose the same amount of internal space whichever side of single blockwork you put the insulation. Or consider building the whole thing from timber on a brickwork oversite with insulated concrete floor which will allow you to achieve higher thermal efficiency from the same thickness of wall but will probably be no cheaper than blockwork and will require some kind if cladding round the whole exterior.

From the sound of it all round cladding over externally insulated single leaf block or full timber construction would be the way to go. Impossible to estimate costs without knowing the construction method and having a floor plan.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Gimlet

[Gimlet]

As a matter of interest, until I was flooded out of my house in the winter I was planning a largish outbuilding of 5 X 6.5 metres as a general workshop and loading room. It would have been a simple rectangular footprint with gable ends and a double pitched roof. After much planning the cheapest and most efficient way to build it was insulated full timber construction clad in rough-sawn boards on an insulated brick and concrete oversite with the roof close-boarded in ply, counter-battened and covered in corrugated galvanised sheets and the interior finished in 1/2" ply rather than plasterboard. Shame it isn't going to happen now.

[four-wheel-drive]

Not a cheap option but have you considered the log cabin they seem to like them in the colder countries as with proper insulation they can be very worm and they do look nice.

http://www.logcabins.co.uk/reallife.asp

[four-wheel-drive]

As a matter of interest, until I was flooded out of my house in the winter I was planning a largish outbuilding of 5 X 6.5 metres as a general workshop and loading room. It would have been a simple rectangular footprint with gable ends and a double pitched roof. After much planning the cheapest and most efficient way to build it was insulated full timber construction clad in rough-sawn boards on an insulated brick and concrete oversite with the roof close-boarded in ply, counter-battened and covered in corrugated galvanised sheets and the interior finished in 1/2" ply rather than plasterboard. Shame it isn't going to happen now.

Ah but have you considered putting it on stilts two or three feet or whatever hight you would need of the ground to be clear of the water

[Gimlet]

Ah but have you considered putting it on stilts two or three feet or whatever hight you would need of the ground to be clear of the water

 

Actually I did consider building it with a wooden floor on raised brick piers to reduce costs and excavation. But I went back to a concrete floor because I wanted a vibration free base for powder scales and the void beneath the floor would probably have ended up choked with ground ivy and full of rabbit holes. And the house would still have been standing in a foot of water...

[Scully]

You really can't beat Tradis Panel. They have been building houses this way in Norway, Sweden and other Scandinavian countries for donkies. Very sustainable; low carbon footprint and toasty warm. Typical heating costs (this includes water, heating, all electricity) on 4 bedroom detached house with air recovery systems and photo voltaic paneling is 400 to 500 quid per annum.There are no rad's in these houses but you can install them if you wish, but it isn't necessary. We built four locally which are only heated by one log burner which heats the house via the air recovery system. The exteriors are clad in Siberian Larch which is nailed directly onto 2x2 counter batten. Great houses.

I realise you're not after a house, but if you're looking for a solid building with low heating costs, then Tradis is the way to go.Google it for your nearest manufacturer.

[Fisherman Mike]

No. 1.

 

22K & 8.5K

[ME]

No. 1.

 

22K & 8.5K

 

Thanks Mike.

[Fisherman Mike]

 

Thanks Mike.

No problem..is it for a garden office ?

 

If it is..consider lightweight construction and cast a lightly reinforced concrete raft with a rebated toe beam (subject to ground conditions). This will avoid the need to dig foundations and get rid of all the spoil from them. ( dont underestimate the amount of bulking ! )

 

You can insulate under the floor with 100mm EPS and bring the external wall up in one skin of 140mm solid blocks and finish it with a water proof render or sand and cement render and masonry paint. The inside skin just do in 50mm CLS studding and finish with a thermal wall board. You can fix an extra 50mm of mineral wool between the studs if you want to beef the u value up a bit.

 

You can blackjack the inside of the blockwork if you want piece of mind about water ingress, its cheap enough but it shouldn't be necessary.

 

With the current cost of facing bricks this would be the cheapest method. if you power float the concrete you wont need to screed it either, and the front wall which is clad knock the blockwork back to 100mm and clad with 32mm battens and ex 22mm cladding. If you want a sketch detail PM me with your email address and Il ping one over to you on Monday.

[figgy]

_{Good offer FishermanMike.}

 

_{Could insulate the inside with Kingspan between the batons and be really toastie inside.}

 

_{By the time you look at waterproofing the outside blockwork,with renders or cladding would it not be easier to just clad it all in timber.Or go for a timber frame sat on footings to dpc and not bother with blockwork at all.}

 

_figgy

[fruity]

I finished one for a client end of last year, it was a lean to not stand alone but he went the the timber route in the end for looks, i went of an old base clad it with waney edge boards with tyvek house rap underneath and insulated with kingspan inside nice and toastie in the bad weather it stays

Edited March 22, 2014 by fruity

[figgy]

That's a nice shed. Warm dry and easily built and will last years.

 

Like the rough sawn wavy edge boards,especially in oak.

 

For me its the extra warmth that timber frame buildings provide with all the extra insulation between the joists.

 

Me build one like in the photos and put a log burner in it.

 

figgy

[fruity]

That's a nice shed. Warm dry and easily built and will last years.

 

Like the rough sawn wavy edge boards,especially in oak.

 

For me its the extra warmth that timber frame buildings provide with all the extra insulation between the joists.

 

Me build one like in the photos and put a log burner in it.

 

figgy

The guy i build it for i also shoot his ground now so see the building regulary, i noticed thursday night while lamping a glow through the window had a quick look, a lovely little woodburner roaring awayt

[figgy]

Wouldn't make a habit of looking through his windows when there is a glow emenating from them you might see sights to frighten you

 

Bet it was cosy and very warm. Be no good me having a shed like that id never leave it,apart from getting fed

 

 

 

figgy

[fruity]

Wouldn't make a habit of looking through his windows when there is a glow emenating from them you might see sights to frighten you

 

Bet it was cosy and very warm. Be no good me having a shed like that id never leave it,apart from getting fed

 

 

 

figgy

Ha ha i thought the place was on fire

[Fisherman Mike]

nice work fruity...

[fruity]

nice work fruity...

Thank you FM

Doing a huge oak timber frame at the moment over a swimming pool what i put in a few years ago, turning into a head scratcher

[Fisherman Mike]

Thank you FM

Doing a huge oak timber frame at the moment over a swimming pool what i put in a few years ago, turning into a head scratcher

I can imagine.... Oak in a humid atmosphere that has the potential to be a perennial maintenance problem..Green oak and some chunky stuff too... would be your best route.

[fruity]

I can imagine.... Oak in a humid atmosphere that has the potential to be a perennial maintenance problem..Green oak and some chunky stuff too... would be your best route.

Yes green oak is being used , the biggest task is a tear drop shaped roof what will have hydrolic glass openers in to release heat

[figgy]

You could use small panes along both sides of the ridge and utilise automatic greenhouse window openers. The commercial type should be strong enough.

 

Figgy