tinyorgi Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 cheers for the surport but had to ring up and cancel fac application this morning , was meant to go to range with work mates friend to get some experiance and may be find someone to mentor me but he didn't answer his phone or answer a text i sent him on monday , when i put the fac app in i didn't know you had to have handled a firearm before and when mates friend told my mate he would sort me out i thought i was in with a chance but he left me hanging and with the safe check and interview on the 28/3/14 tomorrow in desperation i put this post on this forum hoping someone could help me , sorry if some of you thought it was out of order but i was graspping at straws. when i rang police bloke was saying i couldn't even upgrade my airgun to a fac without time with someone and a soldier whos been out in afghanistan shooting a sa80 rifle would be refused a shotgun licence without any expereance of shooting/handling one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian g Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Were they the chuckle brothers masquerading again? I should love for them to explain how much more dangerous 1000 ft lb is over 700 ftlb and why a 40 grain v-max wasn't actually marginally less likely to ricochet from a .223 than a 45 grain sierra softpoint hornet bullet fired at a 400 fps slower velocity. I think shooting oneself with a ricochet should sort of bar someone from doing land inspections but who am I Yer it seemed like it neither had a clue and one was a shooter I complained about them both to there manger but nothing came of it I also rung BASC but ended up speaking to the same patronising unhelpful person that I spoke to when first applying for the 17hmr I realy begrudge giving them money after the past experience with them Edited March 27, 2014 by ian g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian g Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 cheers for the surport but had to ring up and cancel fac application this morning , was meant to go to range with work mates friend to get some experiance and may be find someone to mentor me but he didn't answer his phone or answer a text i sent him on monday , when i put the fac app in i didn't know you had to have handled a firearm before and when mates friend told my mate he would sort me out i thought i was in with a chance but he left me hanging and with the safe check and interview on the 28/3/14 tomorrow in desperation i put this post on this forum hoping someone could help me , sorry if some of you thought it was out of order but i was graspping at straws. when i rang police bloke was saying i couldn't even upgrade my airgun to a fac without time with someone and a soldier whos been out in afghanistan shooting a sa80 rifle would be refused a shotgun licence without any expereance of shooting/handling one Shame that no one could help mate if I were you I'd do a few deer stalks with the same person keep the receipts and after you have been with them a few times ask if they would write a letter for you for the police most good ones will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 You ought to lighten up a bit. I don't consider the police 'they' either. If you have a problem mentoring refuse to do it. If you want to patronise me by using 'clear and slow' I'm very happy to trade some **** with you . Read the thread or threads you will see "Them" and "They" commonly used as a collective term. I have no big issue with helping through mentoring, I have an issue with its over use The quote from the OP below might clarify some when i rang police bloke was saying i couldn't even upgrade my airgun to a fac without time with someone and a soldier whos been out in afghanistan shooting a sa80 rifle would be refused a shotgun licence without any expereance of shooting/handling one That's laughable, especially when you consider a shotgun holds no such competancy requirement. To be frank its so ridiculous I am struggling to believe it but after a time of dealing with FEOs etc very little surprises. We cannot allow "them" (collective term) to make this stuff up as they go along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) a soldier whos been out in afghanistan shooting a sa80 rifle would be refused a shotgun licence without any expereance of shooting/handling one Im no expert on this but what utter tosh. I had experience years ago but never had to prove this what so ever. All the feo asked me if id used a shotgun before. I told him what i had before no prove needed or a letter from anyone. So unless anything has changed in the last 4 or 5 weeks this is carp im afraid. Edited March 28, 2014 by kingo15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyorgi Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) Edited March 28, 2014 by tinyorgi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyorgi Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Im no expert on this but what utter tosh. I had experience years ago but never had to prove this what so ever. All the feo asked me if id used a shotgun before. I told him what i had before no prove needed or a letter from anyone. So unless anything has changed in the last 4 or 5 weeks this is carp im afraid. either you don't have a clue or the police don't , give the police firearms department a ring on 01274376882 because thats what the firearms officer told me . may be different rules for different regions or he was just trying to put me off applying for a fac , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 when i rang police bloke was saying i couldn't even upgrade my airgun to a fac without time with someone and a soldier whos been out in afghanistan shooting a sa80 rifle would be refused a shotgun licence without any expereance of shooting/handling one are you after a fac or shotgun certificate ?? colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 either you don't have a clue or the police don't , give the police firearms department a ring on 01274376882 because thats what the firearms officer told me . may be different rules for different regions or he was just trying to put me off applying for a fac , Nothing to do with having a clue im just stating facts. I had no issues with gaining my shotgun certificate without producing any documents!!!. Fac different kettle of fish completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 If you have good reason to have a firearm, then you should get one. Maybe you might have a mentoring condition but simply put, your referees suggest that you are of good character and fit to own a firearm. Experience first is wildly unacceptable - talk to BASC or join quickly - thye will intercede on your behalf - whoever is your force. Dont stand for this - if you have permission on land suitable for a .22 you should get one with a possible condition that you should be accompanies for 3/4 outings. This latter condition is something you should agrue about - who says you are going to shoot dangerously - know the way you should shoot, backstops, identify quarry etc and you should get approval - I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hi Sorry your having a problem possible solution Join a club There you may find a mentor ie the club instructor Most clubs have different sections target and sporting target This will also perfect your skills and acclimatise you to your rifle of choice and possibly help you choose your new gun Club members can use club guns Now I'm not sure if a person with a open rim fire licence can let a non licence holder shoot there gun to establish there compitence unless they have been granted a estate licence ? With out breaking the law Which appears to vary county to county Hope it works out for you All the best Of What is an estate licence please tell me how I can get one granted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 What is an estate licence please tell me how I can get one grantedHi Don't know how you get one sorry But I have stalked with a guide and been told I am able to use the rifle he carried as it was on the estate licence I assume it is similar to a gun club where a non certificate holder can shoot a club gun As I said I am not sure on this or weather it would be legal to let a non licence holder fire my gun if I was mentoring them This will be on my list of things to check next time I see my local Flo Sorry I can't be more help All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billytheghillie Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Great thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 What is an estate licence please tell me how I can get one granted Hi Don't know how you get one sorry But I have stalked with a guide and been told I am able to use the rifle he carried as it was on the estate licence I assume it is similar to a gun club where a non certificate holder can shoot a club gun As I said I am not sure on this or weather it would be legal to let a non licence holder fire my gun if I was mentoring them This will be on my list of things to check next time I see my local Flo Sorry I can't be more help All the best Of There is no such thing as an Estate License. I rather think your guide was referring to the exemption, often called the estate rifle exemption, in the firearms act which permits people to use borrowed rifles on private premises. See section 16 of the Firearms Act copied below 16Borrowed rifles on private premises.(1)A person of or over the age of seventeen may, without holding a firearm certificate, borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the presence either of the occupier or of a servant of the occupier if— (a)the occupier or servant in whose presence it is used holds a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle; and (b)the borrower’s possession and use of it complies with any conditions as to those matters specified in the certificate. (2)A person who by virtue of subsection (1) above is entitled without holding a firearm certificate to borrow and use a rifle in another person’s presence may also, without holding such a certificate, purchase or acquire ammunition for use in the rifle and have it in his possession during the period for which the rifle is borrowed if— (a)the firearm certificate held by that other person authorises the holder to have in his possession at that time ammunition for the rifle of a quantity not less than that purchased or acquired by, and in the possession of, the borrower; and (b)the borrower’s possession and use of the ammunition complies with any conditions as to those matters specified in the certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 There is no such thing as an Estate License. I rather think your guide was referring to the exemption, often called the estate rifle exemption, in the firearms act which permits people to use borrowed rifles on private premises. See section 16 of the Firearms Act copied below 16Borrowed rifles on private premises. (1)A person of or over the age of seventeen may, without holding a firearm certificate, borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the presence either of the occupier or of a servant of the occupier if (a)the occupier or servant in whose presence it is used holds a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle; and (b)the borrowers possession and use of it complies with any conditions as to those matters specified in the certificate. (2)A person who by virtue of subsection (1) above is entitled without holding a firearm certificate to borrow and use a rifle in another persons presence may also, without holding such a certificate, purchase or acquire ammunition for use in the rifle and have it in his possession during the period for which the rifle is borrowed if (a)the firearm certificate held by that other person authorises the holder to have in his possession at that time ammunition for the rifle of a quantity not less than that purchased or acquired by, and in the possession of, the borrower; and (b)the borrowers possession and use of the ammunition complies with any conditions as to those matters specified in the certificate.Many thanks for the information it has clarified my thoughts Many thanks All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 either you don't have a clue or the police don't , give the police firearms department a ring on 01274376882 because thats what the firearms officer told me . may be different rules for different regions or he was just trying to put me off applying for a fac , There is no law stating that you need to have any previous experience of using/handling a shotgun to be granted a SGC. Unlike an FAC you don't even need to give good reason to have one, as long as you are deemed fit to hold a SGC they cannot refuse giving you one. No different rules for different regions, firearms law is national not regional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyorgi Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 when i rang police bloke was saying i couldn't even upgrade my airgun to a fac without time with someone and a soldier whos been out in afghanistan shooting a sa80 rifle would be refused a shotgun license without any experience of shooting/handling one are you after a fac or shotgun certificate ?? colin i am after a fac applied for a .22lr and 17hmr , when police officer was talking about soldier and shotgun think he was trying to put a point across that if you have no experience with a fac or shotgun you need to get some before applying for a license Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I suspect there is an amount of fiction or misinterpretation in this thread, it certainly running well away from the norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyorgi Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) ring the west yorkshire police on the number i have put on a previous post and they will tell you the same they told me or just put your back in the sand because if YOU don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true. Edited March 29, 2014 by tinyorgi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 ring the west yorkshire police on the number i have put on a previous post and they will tell you the same they told me or just put your back in the sand because if YOU don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true. Not saying I don't believe you but the police are wrong, as they often are regarding firearms law. Ask them to provide the legislation where you need to have handled/used a shotgun in order to obtain a SGC. There is none, if you can prove that you are a fit enough person to hold a SGC they cannot refuse giving you one because that is the only legal requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Not saying I don't believe you but the police are wrong, as they often are regarding firearms law. Ask them to provide the legislation where you need to have handled/used a shotgun in order to obtain a SGC. There is none, if you can prove that you are a fit enough person to hold a SGC they cannot refuse giving you one because that is the only legal requirement. I'm afraid you're banging your head against a brick wall, the OP seems, despite his cry for help, to take his FEO's word as gospel. He would be wise to read and acquaint himself with the Firearms Act, which clearly states all you have advised, but then again, I doubt he will believe that over the fairy tales told by his FEO. Please note the use of the word SHALL. However, in a final attempt to help him I quote the relevant part of the act below.................. 3Grant and renewal of shot gun certificates.(1)For section 28(1) of the principal Act (criteria for grant of shot gun certificates) there shall be substituted— “(1)Subject to subsection (1A) below, a shot gun certificate shall be granted or, as the case may be, renewed by the chief officer of police if he is satisfied that the applicant can be permitted to possess a shot gun without danger to the public safety or to the peace. (1A)No such certificate shall be granted or renewed if the chief officer of police— (a)has reason to believe that the applicant is prohibited by this Act from possessing a shot gun; or (b)is satisfied that the applicant does not have a good reason for possessing, purchasing or acquiring one. (1B)For the purposes of paragraph (b) of subsection (1A) above an applicant shall, in particular, be regarded as having a good reason if the gun is intended to be used for sporting or competition purposes or for shooting vermin; and an application shall not be refused by virtue of that paragraph merely because the applicant intends neither to use the gun himself nor to lend it for anyone else to use.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyorgi Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) was meaning kent to ring police as he said "fiction or misinterpretation" what i put is exactly was the police told me . police probably don't know the law or even make it up as they go along but as a newcomer to fac/sgc i'm not sure what is law or just ******** it's not that i don't understand what people have put sayng it not law it's the fact that people don't believe that the police said it in the first place!! Edited March 29, 2014 by tinyorgi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Never disputed he said it. I just put what he said was utter tosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmiddy Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Just to put this out there My FEO asked when I applied if I had any dealings with a firearm and that I should get someone to MENTOR me as it would fast track the process of me obtaining my FAC That was 2 years ago and it's happened to 5 of us I don't think it's required but just speeds up the process from enquiry to grant of FAC This was for .22 lr and .17hmr and advised through Cleveland police I believe that there trying to deter people from applying thinking if I can't get a mentor I won't get my FAC so what's the point carrying on with trying all I can say is if you have a reason to possess then go for it ........END OF Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin lad Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 all I can say is if you have a reason to possess then go for it ........END OF enough said colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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