johnphilip Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 i have a box full of 4 mm fiber wads could i stack them to make a 20mm wad , and what would happen if i did . would it have an effect on the shot pattern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Confetti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Confetti Bless you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipper Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 John Philip. Yes you can use a wad column built with 4mm wads it will perform fine Dipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Perfect for a frontstuffer! Send them to meeee lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Perfect for a frontstuffer! Send them to meeee lol I will send you some musket balls when i find them metal detecting....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 John! ARE they fibre wads? And not nitro cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 John! ARE they fibre wads? And not nitro cards? I think you are right, they do look like nitro cards. I have got some 20mm fiber wads coming from Siarms. Was just wanting to use these up, was not going to do much 12 gauge reloading, more into 20 gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I wouldn't stack up nitro cards in place of a fibre wad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Nitro cards act as a seal. They are much harder than a fibre wad and if you Build up to many you could end up with a plug! Not saying it WILL happen! But you could over pressure the barrel or blow out the choke if a multi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Nitro cards act as a seal. They are much harder than a fibre wad and if you Build up to many you could end up with a plug! Not saying it WILL happen! But you could over pressure the barrel or blow out the choke if a multi. thank you again sir , i dont want to knacker my mk70, cost me alot of money. they will come in handy for some over powder use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 I don't think nitro cards do act as a seal, I think they just act as a support to the fibre wad when it is being pushed and which does expand when compressed between the card and shot to seal against the expanding gases. Obturators in place of a nitro card on the other hand do act as a seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 i like the 4mm cards because it helps compress any powder. that ba10 is such small kernel that some plastic wads i have "powder migration issues" thats why i like fibre wads and those supersparks. the supersparks have a really flared obturator section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 I don't think nitro cards do act as a seal, I think they just act as a support to the fibre wad when it is being pushed and which does expand when compressed between the card and shot to seal against the expanding gases. Obturators in place of a nitro card on the other hand do act as a seal. Having read the inception of nitro cards, I was lead to believe they were designed to create a seal between the powder and shot! I can see your point though! The use of.a softer compound wad above! "between shot and card" would cause a compression of the wad, thus forming a tighter seal! I am more concerned about the cone or choke restriction. A fibre wad is a nice soft, easily distorted medium that will constrict to pass easily through said cone or choke! Although if you were to test both fibre wad and a 5 or 6 stack of 4mm nitro cards using a rod to push them through a barrel. I would guess you would need a LOT more effort to push a stack of nitro cards through! Surely if it requires more effort to push through, this would lead to greater pressure build up behind them? Just an observation! As I said before, It may or may not be the case! But I personally wouldn't do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 the OP card is to stop the fibre wad getting beat up, hence why it is hard, and dense. if you were to put a fibre wad directly on top of powder, the 10000psi pressure will completely burn up the fibre wad. it wouldnt drive the lead, because the wad / etc wouldnt have any integrity, and be distorted. plaswads are quite ingenius as they have multiple sections. when the powder burns in a shell, the hot gasses expand and squish the fibre wad against the shot when there has been enough pressure generated to pop the crimp, the gasses have squished the powdercard /fibre wad so that main body of the wad (ie fibre) fits the bore and drives the card / wad / combo down the barrel. modern plaswads, are smooth frictionless plastic, ie smooth, the powder obturator is a good seal to stop powder and gasses bleeding off. the same sequence happens but the plaswad can easily cope with the burning of the powder and the expanding gasses squishing the compression column. plaswads have less friction down the bore, the compression section does not (or should not ) produce more friction as it has just had 1500ftlbs put through it. it gets pretty squished in there. i would not use just OP cards, as there is no compression section. ..... well thats my understanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hey relax guys me fiber wads came today from Siarms got a 1000 of 18mm and 1000 of 20mm. Does anyone else get a little present from siarms with there order. First order they sent me a couple of box to put me cartridges in, and this order they sent some plastic round disc. Maybe it just my charm or a young Italian lady is after me body....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Defo the latter! Nobody likes us Geordies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnphilip Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 hoyway man i am an ex durham lad now living in south west scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 the OP card is to stop the fibre wad getting beat up, hence why it is hard, and dense. if you were to put a fibre wad directly on top of powder, the 10000psi pressure will completely burn up the fibre wad. it wouldnt drive the lead, because the wad / etc wouldnt have any integrity, and be distorted. plaswads are quite ingenius as they have multiple sections. when the powder burns in a shell, the hot gasses expand and squish the fibre wad against the shot when there has been enough pressure generated to pop the crimp, the gasses have squished the powdercard /fibre wad so that main body of the wad (ie fibre) fits the bore and drives the card / wad / combo down the barrel. modern plaswads, are smooth frictionless plastic, ie smooth, the powder obturator is a good seal to stop powder and gasses bleeding off. the same sequence happens but the plaswad can easily cope with the burning of the powder and the expanding gasses squishing the compression column. plaswads have less friction down the bore, the compression section does not (or should not ) produce more friction as it has just had 1500ftlbs put through it. it gets pretty squished in there. i would not use just OP cards, as there is no compression section. ..... well thats my understanding Have you actually tested if 10000psi does actually burn up a wad? And when the lead is not being driven...where does it go then? U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Without the powdercard, you'd never burn the powder right. Wouldn't get decent pressure and would not be good, maybe pooky loads. If the wad is burned up / damaged,it wouldn't work because it would allow escaping gases to bleed off faster. The pressure would never be enough to propelled the lead fast, as not all the powder is being burned up at the right time. Only wads work with bp, because that is bp. I am doubting that you'd ever get 10000psi, from a nitro load without an obturator. As the saying goes. Plastic fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Without the powdercard, you'd never burn the powder right. Wouldn't get decent pressure and would not be good, maybe pooky loads. If the wad is burned up / damaged,it wouldn't work because it would allow escaping gases to bleed off faster. The pressure would never be enough to propelled the lead fast, as not all the powder is being burned up at the right time. Only wads work with bp, because that is bp. I am doubting that you'd ever get 10000psi, from a nitro load without an obturator. As the saying goes. Plastic fantastic. Ok...thanks for that. But can you actually answer my questions now? (The ones I asked in #19) You see I have actually loaded nitro loads with just fibre wads in 12g, 20g and .410. They downed a lot of stuff and no body was hurt or harmed at all. The wads were not destroyed or burnt totally and the lead was definitely driven! Oh I get all the efficiency mumbo jumbo but plastic is not fantastic, it's litter! Years ago you could get thin pressed card obturaters , only thin card, looked like bottle tops. U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Plastic is more efficient by a mile but a thick over powder card is considered the best option in a fibre load by all of the manufacturers now, that's good enough for me. If they start stuffing bits of bog paper in its place I'll have a rethink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Plastic is more efficient by a mile but a thick over powder card is considered the best option in a fibre load by all of the manufacturers now, that's good enough for me. If they start stuffing bits of bog paper in its place I'll have a rethink. Ahhhrr you must of been waiting a long time to get that one out bless. One of these days I going to do a video of that just for you Now, which one are you? Tweedledee or Tweedledum? Because I was asking a question to the other! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 The point is that if you want to reload cartridges efficiently and safely you are well advised to use proofed recipes and accepted methods and components. Diverging from that could produce anything from a wounding squib load to a burst barrel so why take the risk. Especially for anyone just starting out, find a suitable recipe and stick to it. I'm pretty sure all that confetti from old cartridges is due to a lack of a decent o/p card underneath the wad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 30, 2014 Report Share Posted March 30, 2014 Ok...thanks for that. But can you actually answer my questions now? (The ones I asked in #19) You see I have actually loaded nitro loads with just fibre wads in 12g, 20g and .410. They downed a lot of stuff and no body was hurt or harmed at all. The wads were not destroyed or burnt totally and the lead was definitely driven! Oh I get all the efficiency mumbo jumbo but plastic is not fantastic, it's litter! Years ago you could get thin pressed card obturaters , only thin card, looked like bottle tops. U I think I answered the question good enough. The question I was mainly answering was, what would happen if you just load fibre was. The answer I gave is good enough. The answer to the other question, about using just nitro cards is this. If you just use nitro cards in a recipe that uses fibre wads you will get an increase in pressure. Powdercards do not compress, so will produce higher pressures. You will never know or feel the pressure differences. The pressure peak /gases needs volume to expand into. Reduce this and the pressure will increase. Plastic can reduce pressure, increase speed,be more efficient / powder . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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