which centerfire to get

[kent]

.243 win is just too much gun for rabbits( unless you want to turn them to contaminated instant soup) and although a great fan and long term owner its real niche is as a fox and all deer gun and long range crow splatter if you can get suitable conditions or even a grant without deer. Its one heck of a competitive calibre but the barrel wont last a full season in the hands of someone who shoots every week, hence it is little used. Its too big a case capacity and bullet choices are all off the mark for purpose to be real useful or easy to produce reduced loads

 

The key to this question is useage there is few things that can do it all .222 / .223 come the closest but still one needs a few different loads making up as you pretty much stuck to std power std target or std varmint in factory.

[wymberley]

Is your Ruger no1 in Hornet Wymberly?

If so does it seem barrel heavy and how does it shoot?

U.

Yes, it's a 1995 1B (26") version.

 

I don't consider it barrel heavy but I only shoot now with a bipod from the vehicle or silage bales (me knadgered). I have a sneaking suspicion that you may be aware of the one problem with these - mine did develop it (timber warp I think), but instead of doing the conventional cure, I just sanded down the front couple of inches of the fore-end to ease the pressure which sorted it. Hanging over a chair behind me are the coloured life size fox field archery targets that I use for zeroing/practice. I haven't patched out the last 3" Shoot N C target I place over the 'heart' since I last did a zero check at 150 yards. Just looked and the last three rounds went into the inner ring and are covered by a 2 pence piece. As I don't shoot past 200 yards, that'll do for me. Coming down from the 243 via the 223 to my previous Hornet, because I can't going running about I really need an 'all fall down on the spot' bullet and I was not too happy that a 40 or 45 grain bullet always achieved this. With no mag/COL problem to worry about and as the 1 in 14 twist handles the 50gr SPSX, touch wood, I've yet to have a fox move more than a couple of feet when struck.

 

Edit: Missing word added.

Edited April 25, 2014 by wymberley

[robbiep]

I didn't see the op mention range work?

(hi folks, i have a cz 455 hmr, was thinking of moving on to a centre fire for more range on what I already shoot, rabbits, crows, magpies, the odd fox, any suggestions please?)

 

TEH

 

Apologies, I think that's my fault. I'd asked (bottom of page 1 of the thread) a variation question, and I think that was being answered

[Albert 888]

 

Apologies, I think that's my fault. I'd asked (bottom of page 1 of the thread) a variation question, and I think that was being answered

It not your fault some cant read:-)

[Cottonseed]

Rifle, Martini actioned, 22 hornet, WW Greener

 

Thanks--I thought I was looking for A Ruger No 1. That Greener has been for sale for the best part of a year. It's very nice, but the guy is difficult to deal with. I was after another Greener of his a few months ago and agreed to buy it, but he failed to answer all phone calls and emails. In the end I gave up. He must think he's running a museum.

[kent]

 

Apologies, I think that's my fault. I'd asked (bottom of page 1 of the thread) a variation question, and I think that was being answered

 

I admit it threw me as so many add to their original question as a thread proceeds, I certainly didn't spot the poster changed.

[Underdog]

Yes, it's a 1995 1B (26") version.

 

I don't consider it barrel heavy but I only shoot now with a bipod from the vehicle or silage bales (me knadgered). I have a sneaking suspicion that you may be aware of the one problem with these - mine did develop it (timber warp I think), but instead of doing the conventional cure, I just sanded down the front couple of inches of the fore-end to ease the pressure which sorted it. Hanging over a chair behind me are the coloured life size fox field archery targets that I use for zeroing/practice. I haven't patched out the last 3" Shoot N C target I place over the 'heart' since I last did a zero check at 150 yards. Just looked and the last three rounds went into the inner ring and are covered by a 2 pence piece. As I don't shoot past 200 yards, that'll do for me. Coming down from the 243 via the 223 to my previous Hornet, because I can't going running about I really need an 'all fall down on the spot' bullet and I was not too happy that a 40 or 45 grain bullet always achieved this. With no mag/COL problem to worry about and as the 1 in 14 twist handles the 50gr SPSX, touch wood, I've yet to have a fox move more than a couple of feet when struck.

 

Edit: Missing word added.

Sorry for hi-jacking but Wymbers.....that is ticking all my box's

 

U

 

Oh and yes....the SXSP....I used them in my last Hornet, A BSA and yes they work fine on Charlie

Edited April 25, 2014 by Underdog

[Gimlet]

 

one thing I would add:

the velocity thing is not worth considering

100fps difference between 3300 and 3400 with 50gr bullets won't be noticed

 

the major advantage to the.223 is the ability to throw heavier bullets

Whilst I use 60gr happily in my .222 it is an anomaly and 50/55 is the usual limit

 

the other one is cheap milsurp fodder be it just brass or both brass/ammo

 

My triple only really likes 40 grn - though it has a 1:14 twist. I can't get it to push any 50 grn load above 3200 accurately. As I want a fairly lively 50 grn load for foxes and Muntjac I'm trading it in for a .22-250 which will give me a do-everything 50 grn round at the cost of noise, powder and barrel life which I will have to take on the chin.

Also if you don't reload, .222 factory ammo is getting harder to find. Mine loves Ferderal which have been like hens teeth for a while now, but doesn't much like anything else and hates Prvi and Norma.

Lovely, lovely little round but not as flexible as the larger chamberings and rapidly becoming a reloaders only cartridge.

[Underdog]

 

My triple only really likes 40 grn - though it has a 1:14 twist. I can't get it to push any 50 grn load above 3200 accurately. As I want a fairly lively 50 grn load for foxes and Muntjac I'm trading it in for a .22-250 which will give me a do-everything 50 grn round at the cost of noise, powder and barrel life which I will have to take on the chin.

Also if you don't reload, .222 factory ammo is getting harder to find. Mine loves Ferderal which have been like hens teeth for a while now, but doesn't much like anything else and hates Prvi and Norma.

Lovely, lovely little round but not as flexible as the larger chamberings and rapidly becoming a reloaders only cartridge.

Now don't get your panties all knotted up because I am not attacking you.....but!

I use to shoot all my foxes with 52grn Speer HPBT match bullets only trundling along at 2850fps! In fact my longest ever distance on a vixen was 388 paces. The second shot sealed the deal on her and I was only sat down forehand on barb wire!

Now in my book 3200 with a 50grn is ample and going to 3700 or more in the 250 may just make those bullets pop on the surface!

 

I watched four sheep shot in forestry once.....two with a 243 and two with a 222. Full fleeces and the two shot with the 243 walked about 40yds away and keeled over! The two shot with the 222 took a few steps! !00yd shots and no shepherds were hurt!

 

Going back to the long fox, when I realised it was only doing 2850fps a short while after that fox and being young started on a campaign to wring as much as I could from that little case and I did.

Did it make any difference to my results? No!

Did my results improve when I switched to a 243? No!

 

MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

 

222 is a peach and often treated un fairly due to loading data being somewhat low in behalf of some weaker actions being chambered in it of old. In a modern action it is capable of nipping the heels of a 223 with in relative bullet choices.

 

While I like the 223 I don't buy the advantage of using really heavy .224" bullets above 60grns....yeah yeah better in the wind maybe blahdeblah. You know what, when it is that windy so as to be at a real disadvantage we are screwed any way. What ever the gun in .224" if it is windy and you are shooting above 200yds you will miss more small vermin than you will hit. If it is that windy get closer or stay at home and wait.

 

I often refer to an old friends CZ shooting 40btips in 222Rem above 3950fps on Alliant RL7 with acceptable pressure and good case life. He pulled some fantastic long shots off but he also missed an awful lot trying! It is or was folly, a chasing after the wind, vanity.

 

Anyway I don't want to cause trouble, it is just my view point. Main thing is have fun and enjoy what ever you shoot

 

U.

 

U

[Amazed]

Lovely round the triple

[colin lad]

Lovely round the triple

i love mine and it's a real tack driver

 

colin

[Gimlet]

Now don't get your panties all knotted up because I am not attacking you.....but!

I use to shoot all my foxes with 52grn Speer HPBT match bullets only trundling along at 2850fps! In fact my longest ever distance on a vixen was 388 paces. The second shot sealed the deal on her and I was only sat down forehand on barb wire!

Now in my book 3200 with a 50grn is ample and going to 3700 or more in the 250 may just make those bullets pop on the surface!

 

I watched four sheep shot in forestry once.....two with a 243 and two with a 222. Full fleeces and the two shot with the 243 walked about 40yds away and keeled over! The two shot with the 222 took a few steps! !00yd shots and no shepherds were hurt!

 

Going back to the long fox, when I realised it was only doing 2850fps a short while after that fox and being young started on a campaign to wring as much as I could from that little case and I did.

Did it make any difference to my results? No!

Did my results improve when I switched to a 243? No!

 

MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!

 

222 is a peach and often treated un fairly due to loading data being somewhat low in behalf of some weaker actions being chambered in it of old. In a modern action it is capable of nipping the heels of a 223 with in relative bullet choices.

 

While I like the 223 I don't buy the advantage of using really heavy .224" bullets above 60grns....yeah yeah better in the wind maybe blahdeblah. You know what, when it is that windy so as to be at a real disadvantage we are screwed any way. What ever the gun in .224" if it is windy and you are shooting above 200yds you will miss more small vermin than you will hit. If it is that windy get closer or stay at home and wait.

 

I often refer to an old friends CZ shooting 40btips in 222Rem above 3950fps on Alliant RL7 with acceptable pressure and good case life. He pulled some fantastic long shots off but he also missed an awful lot trying! It is or was folly, a chasing after the wind, vanity.

 

Anyway I don't want to cause trouble, it is just my view point. Main thing is have fun and enjoy what ever you shoot

 

U.

 

U

 

 

Don't panic. Under garments shipshape and Bristol fashion.

I take your point. My decision is down to circumstances rather than a thirst for power for the sake of it. I use the triple as a nice flat point and shoot vermin round but now I'm shooting muntjac as well and 40s won't do, and even with 50s they're tough little ****. I could use my .308 for munties but mine are 150 miles away where they are combined with vermin shoots so a small deer/vermin calibre is the practical choice.

I could use sub-3000 fps 50s for vermin of course, but I like the faster rounds. I don't need them - I can hold over as well as the next man - but I like them. I could have two loads and dial between, but I don't reload. I was about to start when I was hit by an unplanned house move. Now I have nowhere convenient to test fire. I have a mate who loads my stalking rounds but I don't want to ask him to take on two more loads for the triple. Besides, we struggled to get 50s to shoot as well as the 40s even when slowed down. We tried pushing them the other way and were getting them to shoot very well with 25.4 grns of H335 which gave the best velocity and accuracy, when we reached the limit and ran into pressure problems and they still weren't shooting as tight as the 40s.

So, for me and my circumstances being what they are, I feel I'm asking the triple to do too many things and the .22-250 will offer me a one load all-rounder and probably in readily available factory ammo. In an ideal world I'd keep the triple as a fox and bunny rifle purely because its such a peachy little thing and get a .22-250 as well. But I don't think my FEO will wear it somehow and neither will my bank balance run to yet another scope.

[kent]

My triple only really likes 40 grn - though it has a 1:14 twist. I can't get it to push any 50 grn load above 3200 accurately. As I want a fairly lively 50 grn load for foxes and Muntjac I'm trading it in for a .22-250 which will give me a do-everything 50 grn round at the cost of noise, powder and barrel life which I will have to take on the chin.

Also if you don't reload, .222 factory ammo is getting harder to find. Mine loves Ferderal which have been like hens teeth for a while now, but doesn't much like anything else and hates Prvi and Norma.

Lovely, lovely little round but not as flexible as the larger chamberings and rapidly becoming a reloaders only cartridge.

For many years I have seen the 22-250 as UK pointless being a mirror of the .243 win with 55s and not legal on all deer. However when you dig a little deeper it is a very much more versatile thing when downloaded it can match a Hornet (in some cases even a .22 Mag but you need to ask why) or run as a .223 speed so this could save you considerable barrel life when warp speed is not required. One scope one rifle one barrel and multiple loads

[Gimlet]

For many years I have seen the 22-250 as UK pointless being a mirror of the .243 win with 55s and not legal on all deer. However when you dig a little deeper it is a very much more versatile thing when downloaded it can match a Hornet (in some cases even a .22 Mag but you need to ask why) or run as a .223 speed so this could save you considerable barrel life when warp speed is not required. One scope one rifle one barrel and multiple loads

 

That just what I'm hoping for. One barrel also means one twist rate of course which will restrict load range. If I can accommodate 40 to 60 grains I'll be able to cover everything I need.

[Underdog]

Thanks Gimlet for the kind reply.

It is interesting about the H335...I stopped using it due to pressure my self.

I always stuck to BLC2 and H322.

What rifle is it by the way?

 

U :-)

[Wurzle]

223.

Fantastic round. Common place. You can get it everywhere. It does everything you want. I've had some pretty good results on the range at 600m with .223.

[Gimlet]

Thanks Gimlet for the kind reply.

It is interesting about the H335...I stopped using it due to pressure my self.

I always stuck to BLC2 and H322.

What rifle is it by the way?

 

U :-)

 

Its a BSA CF2 heavy barrel. It will shoot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with 40 grn Federal V Shoks all day long, which are travelling at a middling 3200 fps. They do tend to loose accuracy beyond 250 yards though in anything other than perfect conditions. The idea was to try and replicate a similar velocity and trajectory with hand-loaded 50 grain bullets to create a more stable do-everything round that would also permit target shooting to 400 yards.

Only H335 was producing the velocities. Everything else we tried was well down with accuracy struggling to match the factory 40s. We started very low with this powder as its listed as a .223 powder and as we crept towards the 3200 target accuracy was steadily improving, so we kept going. We reached the absolute limit at 25.5 grains. Dets were flat as coins and looked like they'd been hit with a nail and we were getting split necks. Dropping back to 25.4 the pressures stayed within limits - just. They shot very well at 100 yards but lost it further out and still not as good as the Federals. At this point I concluded I was trying to get a quart into a pint pot and started thinking about other cartridges. It is odd that the rifle seems to prefer 40 grain bullets to 50s. It definitely has a 1:14 twist - I've measured it. No doubt I could get better results with another rifle but if I'm going to change the rifle I may as well change the chambering for a cartridge that won't be working so hard.

If money and licensing restriction were no object I'd go out and buy a .22-250 just to shoot my brothers farm and keep the triple for foxing and rabbiting here at home (I do like the old Beeza). If....

Edited April 26, 2014 by Gimlet

[Underdog]

 

Its a BSA CF2 heavy barrel. It will shoot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with 40 grn Federal V Shoks all day long, which are travelling at a middling 3200 fps. They do tend to loose accuracy beyond 250 yards though in anything other than perfect conditions. The idea was to try and replicate a similar velocity and trajectory with hand-loaded 50 grain bullets to create a more stable do-everything round that would also permit target shooting to 400 yards.

Only H335 was producing the velocities. Everything else we tried was well down with accuracy struggling to match the factory 40s. We started very low with this powder as its listed as a .223 powder and as we crept towards the 3200 target accuracy was steadily improving, so we kept going. We reached the absolute limit at 25.5 grains. Dets were flat as coins and looked like they'd been hit with a nail and we were getting split necks. Dropping back to 25.4 the pressures stayed within limits - just. They shot very well at 100 yards but lost it further out and still not as good as the Federals. At this point I concluded I was trying to get a quart into a pint pot and started thinking about other cartridges. It is odd that the rifle seems to prefer 40 grain bullets to 50s. It definitely has a 1:14 twist - I've measured it. No doubt I could get better results with another rifle but if I'm going to change the rifle I may as well change the chambering for a cartridge that won't be working so hard.

If money and licensing restriction were no object I'd go out and buy a .22-250 just to shoot my brothers farm and keep the triple for foxing and rabbiting here at home (I do like the old Beeza). If....

My first 222 was a CF2 also.

Your experience with that powder is the same as mine! Bl-c2 you can fill the case with it all but and be ok, it gets a bit flashy at night though.

Out of three 222's H322 has never failed to give me sub 1" groups very quickly although top velocity may not be achieved.

My CF2 had a pressure point on the fore end and I struggled for ages I remember. Eventually I floated the barrel to nearly 1/8" clearance and got it much better but I don't remember by how much.

The pressure point was not good enough as I noticed polished steel from grit between the wood and barrel, it may of worked loaded up some more but I never like that as, well it is a bit like how long is a piece of string where as floated is obvious, no contact, period!

I know 200yd foxs were a sinch and regularly shot at 300yd rabbits when the weather was good. I use to use Speer 50grn TNT pretty much exclusively then too.

 

U