Do you really want this lot

[woodcock11]

Oh woodcock you misunderstand me,i totally get there are intelligent people out there in PW land,and they are intelligent enough to make up their own mind.

 

I never presume that i know what an individual is thinking,or how he/she will vote,that is for them to know.

 

I celebrate the fact that this thread has got to 11 pages because a normal thread about this type of thing last one or two pages,but thanks to you two you keep chipping in and keeping the momentum, you then post some of the lamest arguments,and so totally off skew as to what UKIP are about and what a vote for them is that it shows the desperation in some quarters and the fact that there are people out there like yourself who cannot accept that the political elite are conning you time and time again.

 

The main parties fear UKIP, they realise there is another option being offered, one that does not fit into their plans and one they do not want you to follow,they are scared and are lashing out,The same can be said by individuals who are frightened of change, they have been conditioned since birth that you vote for one of the main parties and they then do what they want,but there is another way,the way it was years ago before spin and career politicians, where charismatic individuals rallied people behind them and had visions of a Great Britain,and acted in the interests of their country not an unelected all powerful committee who answer to no one.

 

There are people who will follow blindly,and there are people who will open their eyes.

 

Open your eyes see where successive parties have taken this country,higher taxes, recessions,100's of new laws, 1000's of pages of useless legislation all generated from the EU,sorry i meant your government ,but then i think i was probably right the first time

No dear boy - I do not misunderstand you - you have been hoisted by your own petard and caught out good & proper - hence this very, very lame & confused response - you are out of ideas, just like the party that you now profess to love to bits - I know that Pembroke is kind of dull - the best thing about it is or was the ferry port to Ireland - so I guess you have to latch on to something.

 

One thing that worries me about all you guys is that you hark back to the word "FEAR" - politics is not about the word "fear" - that is what smacks of desperation and I will leave that thought with you as you make your Horlicks or whatever and head off to bed.......

[welsh1]

No dear boy - I do not misunderstand you - you have been hoisted by your own petard and caught out good & proper - hence this very, very lame & confused response - you are out of ideas, just like the party that you now profess to love to bits - I know that Pembroke is kind of dull - the best thing about it is or was the ferry port to Ireland - so I guess you have to latch on to something.

 

One thing that worries me about all you guys is that you hark back to the word "FEAR" - politics is not about the word "fear" - that is what smacks of desperation and I will leave that thought with you as you make your Horlicks or whatever and head off to bed.......

Oh woodie you are so confused,you bleat on and on and yet the same old rhetoric pours out, no matter how you try to spin it UKIP will win seats in the elections,and politics in this country will be more exciting as the main parties play catch up.

 

Pembrokeshire dull,your having a laugh,a national coastal park with some of the most stunning scenery in the world,with top rated beaches,and friendly people,mountains to hike in,sea to play in,huge amounts of outdoor activities,dull i think not.After living and travelling around the world for many years i had the choice to live anywhere in the uk,i chose Pembrokeshire,i think that speaks volumes for the county.

 

It is funny you find me boring,yet you keep responding to me time and time again,and unlike FM who can see the jovial side amongst the argument you seem to have had a humour bypass.

 

Never mind,it seems that no matter how hard you and other narrow minded people try to degrade UKIP they seem to be getting stronger and stronger,read any article that berates them,then read the comments, people can see through the smear campaign and are going to vote UKIP,yes that's right, people like you are turning people to UKIP in droves,again i thank you for your hard work and support.

 

And for you a picture of a beach in Pembrokeshire,one 5 minutes from me called Freshwater East,i don't actually live in pembroke(but close enough)the beach is one of about a dozen within 10-15 minutes drive from me.

And the second picture is the view from my garden,why would you live anywhere else,and all that land is one of my permissions

 

 

[Nial]

It's enlightening to see those losing the debate resorting to insults.

 

I.e. woodcock11 and Fisherman Mike's last posts.

 

 

Nial.

[welsh1]

On a serious note... Many Millions of UKIP voters will be voting for the very first time. After you have marked the UKIP box in the polling station be sure to put your ballot paper in the right receptacle on leaving or it will be spoiled. To avoid any confusion this will be similar to the one below.

Thanks for that Mike,i see it is the same receptacle that the main parties float their best ideas in

[poontang]

It's enlightening to see those losing the debate resorting to insults.

 

I.e. woodcock11 and Fisherman Mike's last posts.

 

 

Nial.

 

That'll be because they don't actually debate the issues.

 

They use, as do all the other parties, ad hominem attacks to deflect from the issues at hand.

 

It's a very old tactic, which in this case seems to have backfired spectacularly.

 

Roll on the 22nd...tick tock tick........tock

[Psyxologos]

Out of curiosity, and for the sake of argument. Say that, come the 23rd, ukip wins and ALL UK MEPs belong to this 'party'. Can some of the 'enlightened' people here who beat ukip's drum answer me the following question?

 

In what way will this be a victory for Britain? In other words, what will change for the better in the lives of ordinary UK subjects?

Edited May 15, 2014 by Psyxologos

[FalconFN]

Out of curiosity, and for the sake of argument. Say that, come the 23rd, ukip wins and ALL UK MEPs belong to this 'party'. Can some of the 'enlightened' people here who beat ukip's drum answer me the following question?

 

In what way will this be a victory for Britain? In other words, what will change for the better in the lives of ordinary UK subjects?

I've asked that question too, as well as others that don't get a decent answer. All of the "can't wait for the 22nd" brigade may feel a little deflated on the 23rd - and every day for 5 years, as they realise that UKIP do sweet FA and our domestic politics trundle on regardless.

[Boromir]

Well they could with a number of other MEP's from other EU countries that are Anti-EU form an alliance and stop change some of the stupid scandalous laws that the EU comes out with. Also I believe the president of the EU is selected by MEP's and again maybe help select a President that supports maybe reforms at least.

At least if UKIP win more seats at least they will have a bigger voice in the EU parliament to voice out what the British people want.

[welsh1]

I've asked that question too, as well as others that don't get a decent answer. All of the "can't wait for the 22nd" brigade may feel a little deflated on the 23rd - and every day for 5 years, as they realise that UKIP do sweet FA and our domestic politics trundle on regardless.

UKIP are a protest vote against the eu,if they do sweet fa then they are doing their job,they are not there to endorse the eu,they are there to expose it for the mockery it is and to be as difficult as possible to the unelected burecrats that run it.There are other parties like UKIP throughout Europe and they have members in the European Parliament,and their numbers are growing as well.

UKIP want out of the eu,and a lot of people agree with them.

 

As for your domestic policies trundling on regardless, look closely,most of our so called domestic policies are dictates from the unelected pond feeders in the eu,we have to comply with what they say,we have signed up for it,if we step out of line and do not comply they fine us.

For domestic policy read eu policy.

[Psyxologos]

Well they could with a number of other MEP's from other EU countries that are Anti-EU form an alliance and stop change some of the stupid scandalous laws that the EU comes out with. Also I believe the president of the EU is selected by MEP's and again maybe help select a President that supports maybe reforms at least.

At least if UKIP win more seats at least they will have a bigger voice in the EU parliament to voice out what the British people want.

 

But this is ab oro impossible. ukip's core idea is not to engage with the EU in any shape or form. In other words they have been, and will continue to, abstain from anything that takes place in Brussels,be it voting, debating etc. I am prety sure they will not cast a vote when it comes to elect an EU president, they will not vote on legislation, and continue to 'lecture' the European Parliament on the evils of a political union of European countries, with the odd personal attack on Van Rompuy, Baroso etc. Now, how can anyone ever see this an appropriate/constructive/useful/interesting/intelligent function for any elected representative beggars belief...

[welsh1]

But this is ab oro impossible. ukip's core idea is not to engage with the EU in any shape or form. In other words they have been, and will continue to, abstain from anything that takes place in Brussels,be it voting, debating etc. I am prety sure they will not cast a vote when it comes to elect an EU president, they will not vote on legislation, and continue to 'lecture' the European Parliament on the evils of a political union of European countries, with the odd personal attack on Van Rompuy, Baroso etc. Now, how can anyone ever see this an appropriate/constructive/useful/interesting/intelligent function for any elected representative beggars belief...

The point is we do not need the eu,we do not need to engage with them, we do not need them to make laws for us,we do not need to be told how to run our country.

We live in a country with the oldest democracy in the world,why would we want to throw it all away to be governed by a committee of people who are accountable to no one,who listen to no one and inflict their ideology on this country.

They are not needed and not wanted.

[FalconFN]

The point is we do not need the eu,we do not need to engage with them, we do not need them to make laws for us,we do not need to be told how to run our country.

We live in a country with the oldest democracy in the world,why would we want to throw it all away to be governed by a committee of people who are accountable to no one,who listen to no one and inflict their ideology on this country.

They are not needed and not wanted.

Whether we need or want the EU is an important issue and one that needs a proper debate and a referendum, that is essential, but the fact remains that we currently ARE in the EU and we DO engage with them - that is a fact, and a legally binding contract, if you will, so ignoring them won't make them go away.

[Dekers]

Whether we need or want the EU is an important issue and one that needs a proper debate and a referendum, that is essential, but the fact remains that we currently ARE in the EU and we DO engage with them - that is a fact, and a legally binding contract, if you will, so ignoring them won't make them go away.

 

 

.....................

 

as a matter of interest what would they do if we did ignore them...kick us out of the EU!

[welsh1]

Whether we need or want the EU is an important issue and one that needs a proper debate and a referendum, that is essential, but the fact remains that we currently ARE in the EU and we DO engage with them - that is a fact, and a legally binding contract, if you will, so ignoring them won't make them go away.

But we have the option of leaving the eu,making our own laws, being accountable to no one except the British people,trading with the rest of the world on our own terms.

 

We don't have to ignore the eu,once we have left we can trade with them ,but it will be on our own terms and in the interest of the UK..

 

As Dekers has said, what are they going to do kick us out,that would be exactly why people voted for UKIP,result.

[Boromir]

Psyxologos on my phone so can't post direct link

 

http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/05/nigel-farage-vote-ukip-next-week-to-send-a-message-to-brussels-and-the-whole-political-class.html

[kdubya]

I've asked that question too, as well as others that don't get a decent answer. All of the "can't wait for the 22nd" brigade may feel a little deflated on the 23rd - and every day for 5 years, as they realise that UKIP do sweet FA and our domestic politics trundle on regardless.

like I have since the last elections when I gave a vote based upon a promised referendum that never came,a broken promise that you being ever so diverse dismiss as electioneering, I call it lying, breach of trust, and traitor-ism, the established career liblabcon politicians who are ever so inclusive of waifs strays deviants and misfits, yet so so dismissive of the wants and needs of the majority will never again get my vote, and those who wish for more of the same based on past performance are frankly certifiably insane.or worthy of visit to the tower.

 

 

KW

[Gimlet]

Whether we need or want the EU is an important issue and one that needs a proper debate and a referendum, that is essential, but the fact remains that we currently ARE in the EU and we DO engage with them - that is a fact, and a legally binding contract, if you will, so ignoring them won't make them go away.

 

That approach has prevailed for forty years and look where it has got us. Again: the European Parliament is not a forum where national governments and national interests are represented. If only it were then there would be no loss of sovereignty. It is designed to replace national government, a chamber where national interest is subservient to federal integration. The British people have never given their consent to such constitutional overwriting. They have never been asked their opinion, even. The closest they can get to expressing that opinion democratically if they do not want to go with the flow is to vote for a party that will take their opposition to overarching European governance directly into its own chamber and give it voice. No other party is prepared to do that. They will take a sanitised version of our opinion to their EU friends and discuss behind closed doors how best to get around it. That is what has been happening for forty years and it is not representation. It is betrayal.

Yes of course we need a referendum and when we get one it will have come about because electoral support for the only British party that has pledged to hold one unconditionally has reached critical mass and forced the issue to the top of the agenda where it can no longer be ignored.

Those of us who cast a vote for Ukip next week or next year in the general election will not voting for a Ukip government nor will we be voting to shape policy in the European Parliament. We're voting for the right to say whether we wish to be governed from that Parliament at all. That isn't protest, that's democracy.

[overandunder2012]

are frankly certifiably insane.or worthy of visit to the tower.

 

 

KW

your not going to send everyone to traitors gate burger king again are you mate hope your paying

[Fisherman Mike]

It's enlightening to see those losing the debate resorting to insults.

 

I.e. woodcock11 and Fisherman Mike's last posts.

 

 

Nial.

I think you will find if you read through the posts that this is fact the opposite Nial.

[poontang]

I think you will find if you read through the posts that this is fact the opposite Nial.

 

Oh dear, oh dear.

 

Mike, you're whole 'argument' has consisted of insulting Farage, UKIP and it's supporters. Blimey, there's even been attacks on the area people choose to live in!!

 

UKIP, and by definition it's supporters, have been called racists, homophobes, and misogynists on this thread.

 

Anyway, it's all good stuff and less than a week to go. I can't wait...can you?

 

Don't forget...

 

 

 

 

[woodcock11]

Oh woodie you are so confused,you bleat on and on and yet the same old rhetoric pours out, no matter how you try to spin it UKIP will win seats in the elections,and politics in this country will be more exciting as the main parties play catch up.

 

Pembrokeshire dull,your having a laugh,a national coastal park with some of the most stunning scenery in the world,with top rated beaches,and friendly people,mountains to hike in,sea to play in,huge amounts of outdoor activities,dull i think not.After living and travelling around the world for many years i had the choice to live anywhere in the uk,i chose Pembrokeshire,i think that speaks volumes for the county.

 

It is funny you find me boring,yet you keep responding to me time and time again,and unlike FM who can see the jovial side amongst the argument you seem to have had a humour bypass.

 

Never mind,it seems that no matter how hard you and other narrow minded people try to degrade UKIP they seem to be getting stronger and stronger,read any article that berates them,then read the comments, people can see through the smear campaign and are going to vote UKIP,yes that's right, people like you are turning people to UKIP in droves,again i thank you for your hard work and support.

 

And for you a picture of a beach in Pembrokeshire,one 5 minutes from me called Freshwater East,i don't actually live in pembroke(but close enough)the beach is one of about a dozen within 10-15 minutes drive from me.

And the second picture is the view from my garden,why would you live anywhere else,and all that land is one of my permissions

 

 

 

 

What lovely photographs - you do indeed live in a beautiful part of the world and I would not deny that. However, your home is shown as "Pembroke" rather than Pembrokeshire, which I have visited and much enjoy. I don't think anyone would describe Pembroke Dock as being a nice place to live - and it was to there that I was referring...

 

It is a fact of life that most ferry ports are pretty grim - just think - Dover, Holyhead, Stranraer, Cairnryan and Larne over here - if you had to live in these towns, I think you would lose the will to live.... however, and without exception, they are surrounded by stunning countryside in which both you & I are fortunate enough to live - the sight of sea or water from one's home is most uplifting.

 

In fact are there are pleasant major ferry ports - and I exclude those serving the Highlands & Islands - Hmmmm...... Harwich is probably the nicest that I can think of - I think Weymouth is just about closed as a terminal these days.

 

Nial - not you - refers to "insults" - no that is a nonsense. Just because I think that your policies are "misguided" does not mean that I would ever wish to insult you - you make your case well enough, it is just that I believe it to be wrong - I have in a previous post referred to you as "my friend" and it was not said with sarcasm in mind.

 

Anyway all is not lost as you go on to say that a vote for UKIP is a " protest vote". Fine - a clutch of UKIP MEPs next week will change nothing - like it or not - and as with all protest votes, normal service will be resumed in due course.

 

One aside that I will make - and it probably has not registered hugely in GB is that the fact that the UK and Ireland both being members of the European Union has been a major factor in ensuring the relatively peaceful situation that we now enjoy in Northern Ireland, reinforced by the hugely successful visit of Her Majesty to Ireland in 2011 and of the President to Britain this year.

[Fisherman Mike]

 

Oh dear, oh dear.

 

Mike, you're whole 'argument' has consisted of insulting Farage, UKIP and it's supporters. Blimey, there's even been attacks on the area people choose to live in!!

 

UKIP, and by definition it's supporters, have been called racists, homophobes, and misogynists on this thread.

 

Anyway, it's all good stuff and less than a week to go. I can't wait...can you?

 

Don't forget...

 

 

 

 

I beg to differ show me where I have directed this so say personal vitriol to a fellow poster directly on this thread and I will send him an unreserved apology...Rhetoric, banter and innuendo are all fair in politics, love and war.

 

I thought you UKIP lot had broad shoulders.

[overandunder2012]

can somebody clarify because i may have misunderstood whats been said in these many pages of posts, if ukip's proposed mep's get in they will vote on nothing and do nothing and the idea is to mess it up for the eu?

 

if so its a great job get paid to do nothing

Edited May 16, 2014 by overandunder2012

[welsh1]

 

 

What lovely photographs - you do indeed live in a beautiful part of the world and I would not deny that. However, your home is shown as "Pembroke" rather than Pembrokeshire, which I have visited and much enjoy. I don't think anyone would describe Pembroke Dock as being a nice place to live - and it was to there that I was referring...

 

It is a fact of life that most ferry ports are pretty grim - just think - Dover, Holyhead, Stranraer, Cairnryan and Larne over here - if you had to live in these towns, I think you would lose the will to live.... however, and without exception, they are surrounded by stunning countryside in which both you & I are fortunate enough to live - the sight of sea or water from one's home is most uplifting.

 

In fact are there are pleasant major ferry ports - and I exclude those serving the Highlands & Islands - Hmmmm...... Harwich is probably the nicest that I can think of - I think Weymouth is just about closed as a terminal these days.

 

Nial - not you - refers to "insults" - no that is a nonsense. Just because I think that your policies are "misguided" does not mean that I would ever wish to insult you - you make your case well enough, it is just that I believe it to be wrong - I have in a previous post referred to you as "my friend" and it was not said with sarcasm in mind.

 

Anyway all is not lost as you go on to say that a vote for UKIP is a " protest vote". Fine - a clutch of UKIP MEPs next week will change nothing - like it or not - and as with all protest votes, normal service will be resumed in due course.

 

One aside that I will make - and it probably has not registered hugely in GB is that the fact that the UK and Ireland both being members of the European Union has been a major factor in ensuring the relatively peaceful situation that we now enjoy in Northern Ireland, reinforced by the hugely successful visit of Her Majesty to Ireland in 2011 and of the President to Britain this year.

Here you go again woodie lording it over me,how strange that you say they are lovely pictures but then go on to say "I don't think anyone would describe Pembroke Dock as being a nice place to live" yet one of those pictures is in Pembroke Dock,and how strange that the Queen visited our "not nice place to live" only the other week,and this week HMS Pembroke popped in and the Royal Marine band were here for the day,strange how many people want to visit Pembroke Dock,you forget that this is no ordinary port,this was one of the Royal Dockyards,and is still.this Port has been used by the greatest,and the buildings are listed buildings,Sunderlands flew from here and there is a huge heritage.

​And for the geeks among you the millennium falcon was made in one of the hangers that originally housed the flying boats.

Why are you so condescending to people and the places they live?I note that you only put your county,and if we want to start talking about grim there are places in your county that are worthy of the term,where exactly do you live?

 

Any way i digress, Back to Ukip,they will get the vote on the upcoming elections and the common man will be heard,people like yourself who seem to be out of touch with the common man can bleat all you want but the will of the people will out.Normal service will not be resumed and politics are changing,if you are a political dinosaur then you will become extinct.People should have the right to vote for anyone they chose, and no one should have a place in politics unless they have been voted there by the people,and that is what will happen in these elections, the people will vote,and they will be heard.

 

Another nice picture for you from the "grim" Royal dockyard,taken on Wednesday,as you can see it was a "grim" day, only about a thousand people were there,but then a lot were at the beaches,or just sitting outside enjoying the view.

 

[Fisherman Mike]

can somebody clarify because i may have misunderstood whats been said in these many pages of posts, if ukip's proposed mep's get in they will vote on nothing and do nothing and the idea is to mess it up for the eu?

 

if so its a great get job paid to do nothing

Essentially yes because in the scheme of things they will be alienated and impotent.

 

I don't doubt there will be a large majority for UKIP in the Euro elections but it will be superfluous and merely a kick in the backside for the two main parties who can really instigate change in Europe.

 

UKIP are strong in some political regions granted but when it comes to the domestic elections they will struggle to overturn the majority in any of the constituencies where they don't have a strong voter base, and which are traditionally Conservative or Labour strongholds.

 

Can anyone really see the rest of the member states supporting the euro MP,s who's party doesn't have the political ascendancy in their own country.? It would be completely futile due to UKIPs self declared political abstinence.

 

All that's going to happen is that we will have a majority of elected UKIP MEP,s that the rest of the parliaments representative's resent and we will never win Eurovision ever again.