Basic Shotgun Fitting

[Mark56]

I've had a dozen clay lessons and I'll hopefully be picking up my first shotgun next weekend (having done research, a lovely Caesar Guerini). It's a 12gauge 30inch sporter, which is what my instructor advised was best to go for at this stage of things.

 

I'm picking it up from a reputable gunsmith, and my question is really to do with basic and then more complex fitting. From all of what I've read on the forums - here, there and everywhere - most gunfitting talks about looking at the mount. At the moment, I've learnt with the gun-up, and haven't yet developed a reliable mount to judge on the fit.

 

So am I right in thinking that the first shotgun fit is to get the basics in place, make sure it is roughly appropriate and the right gun, and that I then learn with this to mount properly. Only when I've got a reliable mount worked out do I then get a proper gunfitting, to really fine tune things.

 

Does that sound right?

[Gunman]

I do gun fitting and stock alteration , I frequently get customers in your position who have been advised to have a gun fit , I see guns with bits of cardboard taped to them sent from shooting grounds with the instruction of this is what I need , on that I've said it before it before and will say it again .You can not fit a gun to a man who can not shoot . It seems a fault of many shooting instructors that they do not teach stance and mount correctly if at all .

 

In my opinion stance and mount are at least 60% of most shooters problems . Providing the overall parameters are correct , not to long or short , cast and drop are within the norm you have to learn to mount the gun consistently , until you can do this there is no point in doing anything else to the stock .

 

Alter the stock now and I guarantee that it will have to be done again in 6 months when you have gotten used to the gun .

Do not be persuaded that you need all kind of bolt ons like adjustable combs and fancy recoil pads , again useless to a novice

Stick to one set of chokes and one brand a cartridge so to take out as many variables as possible , so as when you miss its you and nothing else .

Practice you mount at home , pick a spot and put the gun up to it 10 times, do no try to "pull on to target "as this is not shot gun shooting , it does not matter if you do not "hit the mark " as long as you miss it consistently in the same place , that can be down to stock fit , if you miss it but in a different place every time then that's you and you need to take advice before you develop bad habits,

In this case a visit to stock fitter may be called for as we tend to look at the person and gun as whole and can usually see a problem others may have missed .

[Mark56]

I do gun fitting and stock alteration , I frequently get customers in your position who have been advised to have a gun fit , I see guns with bits of cardboard taped to them sent from shooting grounds with the instruction of this is what I need , on that I've said it before it before and will say it again .You can not fit a gun to a man who can not shoot . It seems a fault of many shooting instructors that they do not teach stance and mount correctly if at all .

 

In my opinion stance and mount are at least 60% of most shooters problems . Providing the overall parameters are correct , not to long or short , cast and drop are within the norm you have to learn to mount the gun consistently , until you can do this there is no point in doing anything else to the stock .

 

Alter the stock now and I guarantee that it will have to be done again in 6 months when you have gotten used to the gun .

Do not be persuaded that you need all kind of bolt ons like adjustable combs and fancy recoil pads , again useless to a novice

Stick to one set of chokes and one brand a cartridge so to take out as many variables as possible , so as when you miss its you and nothing else .

Practice you mount at home , pick a spot and put the gun up to it 10 times, do no try to "pull on to target "as this is not shot gun shooting , it does not matter if you do not "hit the mark " as long as you miss it consistently in the same place , that can be down to stock fit , if you miss it but in a different place every time then that's you and you need to take advice before you develop bad habits,

In this case a visit to stock fitter may be called for as we tend to look at the person and gun as whole and can usually see a problem others may have missed .

 

Thanks so much, Gunman. That seems like very sensible advice to me. It's a shame there's so much confusion out there on this subject that you really have to dig to find the clearest instruction.

[pontbeck]

I do gun fitting and stock alteration , I frequently get customers in your position who have been advised to have a gun fit , I see guns with bits of cardboard taped to them sent from shooting grounds with the instruction of this is what I need , on that I've said it before it before and will say it again .You can not fit a gun to a man who can not shoot . It seems a fault of many shooting instructors that they do not teach stance and mount correctly if at all .

 

In my opinion stance and mount are at least 60% of most shooters problems . Providing the overall parameters are correct , not to long or short , cast and drop are within the norm you have to learn to mount the gun consistently , until you can do this there is no point in doing anything else to the stock .

 

Alter the stock now and I guarantee that it will have to be done again in 6 months when you have gotten used to the gun .

Do not be persuaded that you need all kind of bolt ons like adjustable combs and fancy recoil pads , again useless to a novice

Stick to one set of chokes and one brand a cartridge so to take out as many variables as possible , so as when you miss its you and nothing else .

Practice you mount at home , pick a spot and put the gun up to it 10 times, do no try to "pull on to target "as this is not shot gun shooting , it does not matter if you do not "hit the mark " as long as you miss it consistently in the same place , that can be down to stock fit , if you miss it but in a different place every time then that's you and you need to take advice before you develop bad habits,

In this case a visit to stock fitter may be called for as we tend to look at the person and gun as whole and can usually see a problem others may have missed .

This should be put in the reference section as it is the best advice possible to someone buying a gun for the first time.

I've lost count of the number of threads on gun fitting with people saying it's the most important thing, which it is , but not until you can consistently mount the gun in the same position .

Well said gunman and I hope all on here read this and take note.

[islandgun]

Yes great advice, were about's are you Gunman

[welshwarrior]

Gunman has hit the nail on the head I'm a gun fitter turned stocker I've seen many many shooting instructors try and adjust a gun to fit with stick ons but the shooters feet are in the wrong position me mounts starts with the feet.

 

We can get something you can learn the basics with and in six months time you ll need a different set up when you really understand what the instructor is saying and you've developed foot work etc as well as a consistent mount. Then we can fit a gun to you.

 

Had a guy yesterday talk himself into a gun-fit on his beautiful Woodward having been told by 4 gun fitters to go and shoot it he'll be surprised, but the book he read last week said he needed a shorter stock, and if he used a classic stance he would. but after 40 years shooting slightly more side ways on he does not need 1/4" cut off. Well at least Purdey sent him in not just did the work and billed him, but he'll pay £200 to tell him he his gun fits.

 

Morale of the story take advice from those that know (doesn't come from reading a book) and the proof of the pudding is killing the birds to go in it.

[wymberley]

An eminently sensible post from the OP matched by those from the professionals. One would question though, twelve lessons but still "gun up". Or have I read that wrongly in as much as you have learnt with the gun up but haven't got the hang of mounting it yet while under instruction.

[Mark56]

An eminently sensible post from the OP matched by those from the professionals. One would question though, twelve lessons but still "gun up". Or have I read that wrongly in as much as you have learnt with the gun up but haven't got the hang of mounting it yet while under instruction.

 

Much of the shooting at the ground I'm at is 'gun-up' anyway. They have a range of disciplines, but the bulk (DTL and skeet) is done gun-up - which you can seen on tournament days, too. I'm actually hoping to quickly learn gun-down techniques for FITASC/sporting clays as soon as possible, which they have there, whilst also moving on to game/pigeon shooting.

 

So the tuition for now is largely familiarising with the various angles, lead and so on before progressing with proper mount - and with my own gun!

[welshwarrior]

Many will argue gun up is the only way to shoot home disciples personally I like to shoot English sporting and English skeet gun down as it gives me a better view lots will say why risk 1 bad gun mount as straight 100s win not 99s in ESK then again I've a good friend who I've seen shoot 300 straight at DTL with out ever mounting the gun!

 

Shoot how you like as long as you enjoy it.

[Gunman]

Thanks for the positive feed back I posted something similar on Dec 21, 2013 including my 10 "rules" about stock fit please look it up if you want as I'm to lazy to type it out again today .Its on page 32.

One day I will put all in a book .

Edited May 4, 2014 by Gunman

[CharlesP]

Gunman I for one would be most grateful if you - or indeed anyone - could kindly post a link to that discussion as I can't find it. This is probably down to my own ineptitude.

[welshwarrior]

Quick search Gunman's rules of gun fit.

 

My rules for gun fitting -

1 you can not fit a gun to a man who can not shoot

2 you can not fit a gun to a man who will not listen

3 beware the mate at the club

4 just because "I do it /have it does not mean its right for any one else

5 providing the over all parameters are correct you have to learn to shoot the gun

6 stance and mount are 60% of most problems

7 no body talks about shooting ability , some people will never be first rate shooters

8 you have the wrong gun

9 stick to one brand of cartridges and don't keep changing choke until you have the experience to know the difference

10 if you have to think about the shot you will miss , don't think/ worry just shoot

[CharlesP]

Thank you, welshwarrior.

 

What a jolly sensible list.

[Guest cookoff013]

i find the poi / poa a massive issue anyway.

the gunmount should fix most easy misses.

 

different guns shoot differently, my merkel shoots high, and my mk shoots slightly straighter. i had some issues with poi untill i started to pattern some subsonics i made and just happened to have them while the pattern plate was free,

the poi was slightly higer, but at under 16 yards, that all it takes for a miss. even though the patterns were lovely.

 

a pad just comfortably changed the natural poi to spot on. this was on the pattern plate. next stage was to try on a live target.

 

the target was a straight away clay, standing behind the launcher, didnt need to be fast, just straight, low, no climb or dip. then need to shoot it late. so the target is 30 yards or more.

 

you couldnt miss.

 

the pattern plate is for patterns, it did give away the poi issue. it was not far off. but put 30-40 yards on that its not right. the subs gave that away because they pattern incredably tight.

 

pattern plates can give the wrong information because it can be shot like a rifle, or on multiple shots can be adjusted by the shooter (un intentionally) to hit correct, but when it come to natural sporting / shooting, poi will naturally revert to what it is before.

 

you cannot measure gunfit by mesuring your middle finger, to the trigger and stock.You cannot measure gunfit by measuring the forearm.

[Gunman]

Cheers Welsh .

[12boreblue]

Great topic, for my pennies worth, I shoot mounted and unmounted at Sporting Clays, it depends on the target. As an example for a fast close crosser I shoot mounted, for a long distance incomer I shoot unmounted. Works for me, but defo stance and mount so important.

[Guest cookoff013]

i shoot unmounted. i find the target pickup faster and the gun movement smoother.

 

its frustrating for people who premount and point in the direction where its supposed to be hit, loosing vital time for pick up and shoot. they often shoot very late and or behind.