First 4x4

[ciltalgarth]

Hi all i am looking to purchase my first 4x4 and am looking at the td4 model freelander what do any of you guys know about this 4x4 and how would you recommend it THANKS .

[ProteuS]

hi, the td4 is the detuned 2.0 bmw unit, a very good engine. however, it's transversely mounted and really low in the car. makes for good on road performance, but if your thinking about taking it a heavily off-road i'd think twice.

 

also i'm not so keen on the viscous 4wd system, i like gears and levers.

 

it's all about what you want to use it for

[Mungler]

Hi all i am looking to purchase my first 4x4 and am looking at the td4 model freelander what do any of you guys know about this 4x4 and how would you recommend it THANKS .

 

 

My hairdresser has one.

 

No tell a lie, she ain't a poof.

[OldBill]

It's quite car like but limited off road- no low ratio for a start.

[Cranfield]

The main problem is that it is made by Landrover, but as others have said, it depends what you want it for.

 

If you really need a reliable 4x4, go Japanese.

[beretta]

hey cranfield, ill be looking at one myself shortly what would you recomend.

[hesky]

If your wanting it mostly for off road and a bit of travelling to your shoot.. I bought an old K reg Suzuki Vitara. I paid £700 for it and spent a few quid getting in done up engine wise. If your wanting a 4x4 to go anywhere get one mate. I put some Colway 4x4 C-Trax AT 50% on road 50% off road, they were a bit noisy on the road but with these tyres the car went anywhere and I mean anywhere. I know some will say it's a hairdresses car but it will do the job mate and thats the truth.

 

[bobt]

A freelander, is ok as long as you dont plan to do much off road, the rear exhaust is very vunerable,

 

if you want a small 4x4 look at a nissan x trail, however if you need off road capability and towing too, it has to be a landrover, the jap stuff rusts like you would not beleive.

[Red 9R]

If your wanting it mostly for off road and a bit of travelling to your shoot.. I bought an old K reg Suzuki Vitara. I paid £700 for it and spent a few quid getting in done up engine wise. If your wanting a 4x4 to go anywhere get one mate. I put some Colway 4x4 C-Trax AT 50% on road 50% off road, they were a bit noisy on the road but with these tyres the car went anywhere and I mean anywhere. I know some will say it's a hairdresses car but it will do the job mate and thats the truth.

 

 

I got a vitara LWB and as Hesky says put some decent off road tyers on and it will go anywhere you will need to (probably)

[hesky]

A freelander, is ok as long as you dont plan to do much off road, the rear exhaust is very vunerable,

 

if you want a small 4x4 look at a nissan x trail, however if you need off road capability and towing too, it has to be a landrover, the jap stuff rusts like you would not beleive.

 

That's what I have now mate an X Trail nearly got it stuck first time on the field. Good drive on the road though, yes mate your right the Jap stuf do rust a bit but I still wish I never sold my little go anywhere Vitara lol

 

[Cranfield]

Jap "stuff" rusting is an ancient myth, much has improved over the years.

 

I wanted a shooting/fishing wagon and we have a "family" car, so I bought an import Surf, because I liked all the uncluttered room behind the rear seats, plus the top class spec.

A friend of mine has a Vitara that he uses for the same purpose.

Mitsubishi Pajero and Isuzu BigHorn are also fine.

 

If I could only have one vehicle for dual purposes, I would buy a Land Cruiser, or something very similar.

[russuk]

I've been looking at the Vitara. I'm after something that can fit the dogs in, gives decent off road performance, give me around 30mpg, max of £5k and a low ish insurence group.

 

P/R reg 5dr 2.0 turbo diesels with around 60/70k on the clock are coming in at around £2500/£3000.

 

Only problem I can see is a top speed of 88mph and a 0-60 of 19.2 seconds.

 

The Frontera 2.2 DTi Limited 5dr ticks all the boxes, but no one seems to like them. I like the Nissan Terrano, but fuel consumption is in the low 20's.

[Cranfield]

The Fronteras have no room behind the back seats and are a bit underpowered, according to friends who have had them.

They can also be prone to niggly electric problems.

 

With the right tyres, there are few places a Vitara can't go.

[njc110381]

I wouldn't touch anything made by Vauxhall with a pole, but I'm only going by my experience and opinions of mechanics I know. Other people may think more highly of them. I'd go jap myself for the reliability, Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi etc are all good. Rust is down to the individual vehicle. I had an M plate (96 I think) Landrover 90 Defender Tdi which virtually fell in half due to rust, and that was 5 years ago! I bought it for 8k and managed to get 4k back about 18 months later! Jap parts are not cheap, but them they don't often break! Freelanders are not known to be the most reliable kit available

[hesky]

I've been looking at the Vitara. I'm after something that can fit the dogs in, gives decent off road performance, give me around 30mpg, max of ?5k and a low ish insurence group.

 

P/R reg 5dr 2.0 turbo diesels with around 60/70k on the clock are coming in at around £2500/£3000.

 

Only problem I can see is a top speed of 88mph and a 0-60 of 19.2 seconds.

 

The Frontera 2.2 DTi Limited 5dr ticks all the boxes, but no one seems to like them. I like the Nissan Terrano, but fuel consumption is in the low 20's.

 

Russ 30mpg is what you will get from the Vitara with those tyres on and you can drop the seats down to, although there's not a great deal of space theres enough to me to warrant it's off road capabilities IMO. I would not have a frontera for nothing.

[russuk]

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/Review.aspx?model=855

 

The Grand Vitara looks good, very reasonable used prices to. But again the diesels look ball-breakingly slow.

[magman]

hey cranfield, ill be looking at one myself shortly what would you recomend.

 

if your interested get in touch as i bought direct from the main import auctions and still got an acount .

tim you also if you wish

[Tony9r]

I'd say go Jap... cheap and reliable

 

Here's my little monster

 

 

[simonp]

I'd say go Jap... cheap and reliable

 

Here's my little monster

 

....

 

Nice, Wookie and I work just down the road from you, in Cambourne

 

Since the wife and I are changing cars soon, I plan to hold on to our old 'beast' and use it purely for odd-road pleasure Its an LWB gen2 Frontera with a 3.2 V6 Under the Vuaxhall badge its all Isuzu and is actually bloody capable off road (even rescued the odd landy !! ).

 

 

You can pick up both the LWB and SWB quite cheap atm.

 

Since its no longer going to be the family workhorse, I'm going to take off the side-steps and stick a 2" lift on it let the fun times roll

 

Si.

[Tony9r]

I'd say go Jap... cheap and reliable

 

Here's my little monster

 

....

 

Nice, Wookie and I work just down the road from you, in Cambourne

 

 

Excellent... like minded neighbours

[hesky]

NICE MOTORS LADS

[ciltalgarth]

Hi again guys THANKS for all your help and pics.

 

I have been thinking of a freelander as we have always had land rovers on the farm and like land rover not to expensive on parts and labour ( got a farm mechanic who is well up on land rovers and rates them). It will be mostly a family vehicle but for the occasional off road , i have also thought of a disco but they are heavier on juice and very large.

 

THANKS AGAIN ALL

[hesky]

Hi again guys THANKS for all your help and pics.

 

I have been thinking of a freelander as we have always had land rovers on the farm and like land rover not to expensive on parts and labour ( got a farm mechanic who is well up on land rovers and rates them). It will be mostly a family vehicle but for the occasional off road , i have also thought of a disco but they are heavier on juice and very large.

 

THANKS AGAIN ALL

 

NO don't get a freelander mate. READ REVIEW AT. http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=52

 

What's Good

Good styling. Comfortable. Likeable. Plenty of room for four or five passengers. Kids enjoy the high back seat. Proper three-point centre belt in 5-door. Useful underfloor lockable cubby-safe. Hill descent control works well. The more you drive it the more you like it. SWB 14' 5" long; LWB 14' 7" long. Fropm 1,480kg. Originally with 118bhp 1.8 litre K Series petrol engine of 96bhp 2.0 Rover L Series diesel. Longer 3-year warranty inclusive from spring 1998. Fairly damage-proof at the front because even the wings are plastic. 175bhp/177lb ft 2.5 litre KV6 and 110bhp/192lb ft 2.0 litre BMW TD4 diesel with Steptronic automatic options on both finally arrived in Autumn 2000. TD4 does 102mph and 0-60 in 13.2 seconds, a useful improvement on the slow old Rover diesel. Still depreciates less than a mass-market estate car. 2001 list prices from £15,995 for 1.8, from £17,195 for TD4 and from £21,595 for KV6. TD4 5-door recommended. Chip now available from Rover (not Ford or Land Rover) to boost TD4 to 130bhp. Unlimited mileage 3-year warranty on all new Freelanders sold by official UK dealers from 1-3-2002. Owners bulletin board: www.landrover.org/wwwboard/wwwboard.html Low 3 out of 9 point death rate from accidents in this model.

 

Improved for 2004 with inerior and exterior facelift, more comfortable seats and new trim colours and materials. New Sport model optimised for on-road driving performance. Three engines (1.8 and 2.5 Rover K Series petrol and 2.0 BMW diesel) and three- or five-door body styles. Full-time 4x4, plus electronic driving aids such as Hill Descent Control and Electronic Traction Control. Gearboxes improved. Sport rides on new 18-inch alloy wheels and uses lowered and firmer suspension to reduce roll and improve driver feedback. The result is more responsive driving behaviour on tarmac, and on smooth dirt or gravel roads. Production moving from Solihull to Halewood in an attempt to iron out build quality problems. Photo shows 2004 model. TD4 2001-2003 rated average for breakdowns, problems and faults in 2003 Which survey.

 

 

What's Bad

Based on much modified old Rover 200 floorpan. Nissan's X-Trail 2.2DI Sport 6-speed is better in every respect. TD4s initially hard to get hold of due to supply problems with BMW engines. Initial promise of high quality build not met. Lots of niggly failures. Main failure on 1.8s is the engine through head gasket failure. By 1994 second failures of previously repaired 1.8s on 1997 - 2000 Freelanders due to bore liners dropping and a shortage of used replacement engines was putting a lot of them off the road (website link www.shame.4mg.com). Also failures of hill descent control, driveshafts and gearboxes, transfer cases and blocked ventilation slots (Sunday Times 6/3/99). Original Rover engined DI model failed miserably in police use. More ponderous than Honda CRV, Toyota RAV-4 and X-Trail and more expensive than CRV. Not as economical as expected, but Rover diesel can average 35 mpg at a 70 mph cruise. Became increasingly expensive with Freelander 50th 5-door diesel listed at £24,995. Several recalls. Many owners taking a hit, getting out and getting into fault-free Honda CRVs, RAV-4s and X-Trails. Low profile tyres fitted to 'Millennium' model Freelanders are't up to suburban kerb mounting, which is the main off road activity of these vehicles. S and T platers 16th from bottom in 2001 Top Gear / J.D. Power Customer Satisfaction Survey. In June 2001 Land Rover was rated by Motor Warranty Direct as Britain's 2nd worst out of 22 marques for warranty claims (www.warrantydirect.co.uk)1.8 K Series head gasket failures website link www.shame.4mg.com By July 2003 several reports of head gasket failure of the KV6. One report of failure of rear axle at 47k miles; another at 76k miles: apparently by no means unique. Several reports of Steptronic gearbox problems on the KV6. No brake pad wear warning system, so pads must be physically inspected. Loss of power of TS4 may be due to failure of mass airflow sensor which costs £250 to replace.

 

2nd bottom of 100 models for reliability in Auto Express 2002 survey. 7th from Bottom in 144 car 2002 JD Power / What Car? Customer Satisfaction Survey of V and W reg cars. LandRover had joint highest average cost in warranty claims for cars up to 10 years old in 2002 Warranty Direct index. Joint third bottom in 2002 Which reliability survey of cars up to 2 years old; 106 cars surveyed. Land Rover 3rd least reliable of 31 makes of car in 2002 'Which?' reliability survey cars 2000 - 2002; least reliable of 32 makes built 1997 - 1999. Only three stars in 2003 NCAP crash test ratings. Land Rovers had third highest warranty repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct Reliability index (index 167.53 v/s lowest 31.93). 1998-2002 petrol rated poor for breakdowns and problems, average for faults; 1998-2000 diesel rated average for breakdowns and faults, poor for problems; 2001-2003 petrol rated average for breakdowns and problems, poor for faults in 2003 Which survey. 8th from bottom out of 137 models in 2003 Top Gear survey. Freelander 9th bottom model in 2004 JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey. Only 89% of cars up to 2 years old breakdown-free over previous 12 months in 2004 Which? survey, yet gasket problem was supposed to have been fixed from 2001 production. Land Rover 4th bottom of Reliability Index for 2004 combining average cost of repair of £367.03 with highest 46.23 failures per 100 Warranty Direct policies. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk Freelander 5th least reliable car in 2005 Warranty Direct Reliability Survey with 55 repair claims per 100 cars. Link:- www.reliabilityindex.co.uk

 

 

Water level sensor kit available for the MGF and TF for £89.99 from MG Specialists such as Brown and Gammons (01462 490049) www.ukmgparts.com may also fit Freelander.

 

EXCEPT FOR TD4 NOT RECOMMENDED. ESPECIALLY AVOID EARLY 1.8s.

 

Now reports of failures of Jatco 'Steptronic' autoboxes after 45k miles and 3 years. Spares and knoweledge of the box hard to find in UK so usually means a new box at 4.5k.

 

K-Series engine failure class action solicitors www.irwinmitchell.com/groupaction/our_work/defective_products/other_products/rover_k-series_engine.asp

 

Following MG Rover's demise, may be problems over the supply of K series 1.8 and 2.5V6 petrol engines.

 

 

Further explanation for K Series head gasket failures in Freelanders, with thanks to Robert Ambler:-

 

In a Freelander the transmission incorporates an Intermediate

Reduction Drive unit which provides the 4WD capability. The

lubricant in this gets very hot and so is passed through a heat

exchanger connected to the engine cooling system. This is fed by

comparatively small bore coolant piping and is located lower and

further back than the rest of the cooling system. If the engine

coolant is drained for any reason (and of course the service advice

for the all aluminium K series engines recommends draining and

flushing the cooling system at least every 24,000 miles I believe)

air locks can develop in this heat exchanger. This causes the engine

(and the transmission) to overheat causing head gasket failure and

probably other damage. The heat exchanger has separate bleed points

to prevent air locks but these are apparently fiddly to get at (and

not obvious from an under bonnet inspection) and thus this service

item often does not get done.

 

 

Explanation of Freelander drivetrain problems and also an excellent service reconditioning Freelander JATCO automatic transmissions at www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk

What to Watch Out For

Signs of severe usage. Tow hooks (what's it been towing? Neither the 1.8 nor the diesel is really powerful enough). Underside damage. Drivetrain leaks. Make sure everything works, especially the 'hill descent control', if fitted. Main problem area is drivetrain: gearbox, transfer box and rear diff. Reports of accelerator of 1.8 petrol models sticking and leading to accidents. Quite common for 1.8 to lose its coolant through inlet manifold gasket failure and small coolant capacity of engine leads to severe overheating. Reports of gearbox failures. Check clutch operation carefully as off road driving can lead them to fail in as little as 20,000 miles due to lack of a low range first gear. Severe shortage of spare parts for accident repairs in late 2002 to early 2003 led to many Freelanders off the road for months. AVOID EARLY 1.8s. Care needed not to overfill TD4 with engine lube oil. On TD4s over 100,000 miles injectors of the BMW engines are are prone to seizing into heads.

 

More tips about KV6 engine in Rover 75 entry.

 

JATCO advises owners not to carry out AUTOMATIC transmission fluid changes hemselves because it's difficult to ensure the correct amount is added (the gearbox needs to be run to a specific temperature - This requires diagnostic equipment) and probably they will use the wrong oil, e.g. Land Rover Discovery ATF is different from a Land Rover Freelander, and Jaguar X-Type (Jatco) uses different ATF to a Land Rover Freelander (Jatco).

Recalls

TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins) over some part-time four-wheel-drive clutch systems failing due to fluid leaks and replaced 'in service' by Land Rover dealers. Official November 1998 recall (build dates June '97-June '98) to check welding on joints of rear suspension arms. 1999: official note to owners to reduce tyre pressures from 2.1 bar to 1.8 bar when not fully loaded, to increase tyre life. 22/10/2001: 68,838 Freelanders from 1/10/1997 launch to 28/2/2001 recalled to check and replace parking brake ratchet if necessary. Further 12,286 built 1/8/2000 to 30/11/2000 recalled because wiring harness can chafe against fuse box putting out headlights, engine management, cooling fans, fuel pump, ignition circuit, a/c, abs and hdc. Further 4,391 3-door Freelanders built 1/8/2000 to 31/2/2002 recalled to check latches of folding front seats and replace as necessary. Feb/March 2002: Apparent recal of TD4 Steptronic automatics to correct fuel lifter pump/fuel pump relay fault. 5-11-2002 22,343 Freelanders from VIN 1A 576764 to 2A 397466 because pin 5 of diagnostic socket not fitted with ground. Pin to be fitted to position 5 and wired to earth. Late 2004: apparent recall of Freelanders fitted with a faulty batch of Pirelli Scorpion tyres.

 

 

 

 

 

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[al4x]

Hi again guys THANKS for all your help and pics.

 

I have been thinking of a freelander as we have always had land rovers on the farm and like land rover not to expensive on parts and labour ( got a farm mechanic who is well up on land rovers and rates them). It will be mostly a family vehicle but for the occasional off road , i have also thought of a disco but they are heavier on juice and very large.

 

THANKS AGAIN ALL

 

 

For that use the Freelander will be fine, they have a bad reputation but a lot stems from the early models. I've had an off road day with one on proper tyres and it was surprisingly good. Tyres are what lets down most of the road based 4x4's for economy and comfort the tyres need to be less off road focussed hence they are ok when you go off road but not for serious off roading. if you've a landie mechanic available then the concern over maintenance and breakdowns is reduced.

Personally I've a fourtrack which is great but not that refined but then does give good economy and have room for the dogs and plenty of gear without being too big.

[ROBLATCH]

Hi all i am looking to purchase my first 4x4 and am looking at the td4 model freelander what do any of you guys know about this 4x4 and how would you recommend it THANKS .

MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF THE FREELANDER IS KEEP WELL AWAY.

I HAVE JUST PUT MINE IN PX FOR A SUBURU FORESTER.

THE TD4 I HAD ,HAD FAULT AFTER FAULT ON THE REAR LIGHTS AND WINDOW WIPERS.MY MATE ALSO HAS A TD4 WITH THE SAME PROBLEM.IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN THERE WAS A RECALL ON THEM LAST YEAR.AT LEAST THATS WHAT MY LOCAL DEALER TOLD ME