Auction buyer premiums rip off

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, would a RFD/gun shop be able to claim back the VAT/ buyers cost? 

[strimmer_13]

Well ive put 3 guns into auction for next weekend because all I had was idiots messing me about on freeads and gunstar. I didn't even ask what the costs will be, I'm having a clear out and let's be honest, you don't find top end stuff at auction often. Most people who moan, have tried all other ends of selling their gun, it's a dead market, so they try the auction, but think they should still get retail price at the end of it. 

The way i see it is this. They take your gun, they store it, insure it under their policy, display it 2-3 times, catalog it, exchange paperwork at least twice, then more forms of paying you. To do this they employ a few people, quite a lot of hours each to do so. 

Also when you buy, you've bid, they've 2-3 people paying attention to the room, more wages, they've taken a fee for the tranfer and you walk home with what ever you bid on. Yes they make profit, and whilst I agree that 20-30% is extortionate, I've nothing about people making money. It's a business, dont want to use it, dont then. 

I do a hell of a lot on ebay, been on since 2006 and for the amount of times I get messed about it really ****** me off. Never had a problem at proper auction. Yet. 

Rant over 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by strimmer_13

[Snoozer]

1 hour ago, strimmer_13 said:

It was a great introduction wasn't it 😂

This lol

[bostonmick]

2 hours ago, strimmer_13 said:

you don't find top end stuff at auction often

 

Maybe the village hall auctions are not selling top end. But the better auction houses are. Plenty there making 5k and upwards. Maybe better to put them into a rfd on commission sale at 15% and keep them in business rather than paying the 60% some of these auctions rip out of the sale. 

[strimmer_13]

24 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

Maybe the village hall auctions are not selling top end. But the better auction houses are. Plenty there making 5k and upwards. Maybe better to put them into a rfd on commission sale at 15% and keep them in business rather than paying the 60% some of these auctions rip out of the sale. 

In my eyes used have to be off your head to warrant putting a 5k gun into auction. Unless it was from a deceased estate. Gun shop every time. 

60% is a bit strong, remember it's each way. Seller gets charged the 30% (which is the highest I've heard off) then the seller pays 18%. They don't total to one person, apart from the auctioneer. Its called making a profit. And who's to blame them when I watch idiots paying retail as they've got the bidding bug. 

Dont do it if you don't want too

[Vince Green]

The same hike in "indemnity fees" has evolved at car auctions. I can remember when it was a flat £20, now its often £500 or more. The thing is, the big boys don't pay it, neither do they get charged the same seller fees as we do .

[bostonmick]

4 hours ago, strimmer_13 said:

In my eyes used have to be off your head to warrant putting a 5k gun into auction. Unless it was from a deceased estate. Gun shop every time. 

60% is a bit strong, remember it's each way. Seller gets charged the 30% (which is the highest I've heard off) then the seller pays 18%. They don't total to one person, apart from the auctioneer. Its called making a profit. And who's to blame them when I watch idiots paying retail as they've got the bidding bug. 

Dont do it if you don't want too

On top of the rediculous fee if you want your gun graded there is an extra charge for their (expert). My shooting partner went to look at a gun that was graded 8 out of 10.it was off its face and had a crack in the forend that had been repaired poorly. Like I said I won't use auctions again I prefer to keep my local rfd going so he is there for when I need cartridges or other bits. 

[strimmer_13]

4 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

Like I said I won't use auctions again I prefer to keep my local rfd going so he is there for when I need cartridges or other bits

Cannot argue with any of that at all, just most gun shops I know won't bother commissioning a sale for a sub 200 quid shotgun. Can't say I blame them, but the market is flooded at the moment with the cheaper end of the shooting market, even some of the higher end stuff is struggling to move. 

 

[pinfireman]

On 24/07/2014 at 21:52, JABB said:

Do secondhand guns not come under special scheme VAT, therefore no vat to pay on the purchase? If you look at the catalogue, the lots which VAT is applicable are marked as such. Most are not.

 

To add insult, you also pay 2% to buy said lot on a Credit card!

 

See above

 

I think that the VAT is on the commission, not on the hammer price.

[TGM]

I found this old thread, as I was Googling "rip off auctioneer commission rates".

Although I am not in the market for a gun, I am for some Ruby Jewellery.

WildRover makes the very valid point about business needing reasonable mark ups to cover costs. I owned a retail shop for 30 years, and he is correct. Both of our nearest "proper" auction houses charge 20% + VAT to both buyer and seller. They also charge valuation fees, one charges an on line commission uplift, they  make money via delivery charges etc.

My main point though, to WildRover and others with  a similar viewpoint,  is that they cannot be compared to a retail operation. They have no outgoings or risk as far as stock is concerned, and they have zero responsibility for the products once sold (sold as seen). A 40% mark up without having to  account for the intitial stock purchase seems like a dream business.

Finally, as a buyer, if you buy from a retailer, you have your consumer rights, there are nine via an auction.

Regards,

FT