Kids and guns at 10 on 4

[KFC]

It needs to be kept in proportion too. We can't legislate to prevent anyone from dying from anything forever.

 

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/accidental-deaths/

[Scully]

In their case, having more guns has not made them safer.

The American right to bear arms was brought into existance primarily to protect the citizens from a tyrannical government, and as a result of a tyrannical government, namely the British. The right to bear arms for personal self defence is a natural extension to that act, but whether that is what the forefathers had in mind back then is a subject matter open to much debate in the USA even today.

At the time of the constitution we also had the freedom to carry arms for self defence, a freedom which we allowed, rightly or wrongly, to be taken from us by successive governments.

There are many books on the subject, including from a British perspective, and there are many documented accounts of lives being saved in modern America by the use of legally held firearms.

The producers of the programme could have based their programme in Canada, where very similar firearms legislation exists and the tradition of hunting is just as strong from a cultural point of view, or in the UK, where we also teach our kids to handle guns and shoot, but they didn't, for a reason.

[STOTTO]

You're right, but there's no denying that proportianately there are far more gun related incidents/accidents over there than we have here. In their case, having more guns has not made them safer.

By percentage of problematic possibility the more people that have access to whatever from toothpicks to tommy-guns the more problems will become apparent in that population with the access. A good example is motor vehicles, more cars on the road, by proportion more accidents happen and in theory all drivers should be qualified license holders. What degree of skill, awareness or common sense or indeed a lack of any one of these plays a part in the majority of these mishaps? When participatory numbers increase so I am afraid do the complications! But in this fast paced modern world would you consider giving up your motor car??

[pontbeck]

I love The States and , as I said before , have visited over 20 and never have I felt uncomfortable or threatened . Last year almost 100 children were killed accidentally by guns, a good number of them by friends or family members playing with loaded guns. Surely keeping them out of children's hands is not too much to ask.

[Oxfordshooter]

When we go on holiday to the USA, very few of us will visit the areas and neighbourhoods where the majority of gun crime/accidents happen - we only stick to the nice bits. This means that we come back with the opinion that the states is a nice, affluent, crime-free place to live - which for millions of Americans it isn't. There is more poverty and deprivation over there than there is here by far. This poverty is a big factor in the amount of gun crime and accidents which then bump up the stats.

[pontbeck]

I agree with what you say, up to a point, poverty doesn't cause "accidents" , negligence does and with more control on storage the "accidents" would decrease .

[Scully]

Surely keeping them out of children's hands is not too much to ask.

Totally agree. But the parents have to take responsibility for that, as for most parental responsibilities, such as ensuring all medicines are out of reach, the knife drawer is kiddie proof, no matches are within reach and they're kept away from the stove and that 200lb Alsation isn't left unattended with the youngest in the sitting room.

We've been here before. It's all common sense really.

[Oxfordshooter]

I agree with what you say, up to a point, poverty doesn't cause "accidents" , negligence does and with more control on storage the "accidents" would decrease .

Poverty is certainly a factor in the number of accidents. Poverty = absent fathers not instructing their kids how to handle firearms safely, also no expensive trips to the range to practice and learn safe handling. It also makes responsible adult supervision less likely to happen - inner city poverty and drug crime is a major factor in gun related child death rates in the US.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Oxfordshooter

[pontbeck]

Totally agree. But the parents have to take responsibility for that, as for most parental responsibilities, such as ensuring all medicines are out of reach, the knife drawer is kiddie proof, no matches are within reach and they're kept away from the stove and that 200lb Alsation isn't left unattended with the youngest in the sitting room.

We've been here before. It's all common sense really.

Your 100% right! it's all common sense. Why you would have to legislate for that is beyond me but it's obvious to me they should but don't.

[Oxfordshooter]

Your 100% right! it's all common sense. Why you would have to legislate for that is beyond me but it's obvious to me they should but don't.

The problem is some parents can barely look after themselves let alone their kids. How do you legislate against that?

[bullet1747]

gutted for the parents who lost there son but they are to blame in my eyes,the guy in the wheel chair feel sorry for wot happened to him but he needs a to get a grip the daughter doesn't like the shooting

[pontbeck]

No different in this country or anywhere else for that matter and that's why we have legislation, to protect people from themselves.

Edited August 2, 2014 by pontbeck

[bullet1747]

No different in this country or anywhere else for that matter and that's why we have legislation, to protect people from themselves.

in wot way

[pontbeck]

Parents who can barely look after themselves, never mind children

[Oxfordshooter]

Parents who can barely look after themselves, never mind children

Any idiot can have a child.

[pontbeck]

And give them a gun

[Oxfordshooter]

And give them a gun

Exactly.

[pontbeck]

I knew we really agreed

[Scully]

The problem is some parents can barely look after themselves let alone their kids. How do you legislate against that?

That's just it, you can't really. Do we really want government interference and legislation in and for every aspect of our lives? Where would you stop? Not easy I know, but like I said, it's a complex issue.

The programme was made entirely with, and edited to show, the very worst examples of American gun culture. I'll bet there are just as many, if not more, American parents who would be as disgusted as us to see the contents of that programme. There was no attempt at a balanced view, just as those benefits programmes show the worst aspects of that particular culture. There's always a balance, but the balance doesn't get ratings.

[Oxfordshooter]

That's just it, you can't really. Do we really want government interference and legislation in and for every aspect of our lives? Where would you stop? Not easy I know, but like I said, it's a complex issue.

The programme was made entirely with, and edited to show, the very worst examples of American gun culture. I'll bet there are just as many, if not more, American parents who would be as disgusted as us to see the contents of that programme. There was no attempt at a balanced view, just as those benefits programmes show the worst aspects of that particular culture. There's always a balance, but the balance doesn't get ratings.

 

That's commercial TV programming for you. For all its faults, you wouldn't get this type of crud on the BBC.

[VikingRebel]

No different in this country or anywhere else for that matter and that's why we have legislation, to protect people from themselves.

 

Assuming it is true that people can't be trusted and need protecting from themselves, why on Earth are we still allowed to buy petrol and matches without any prior certification, permission, training or registration? The only prerequisite being money and jerry can. Surely this is a recipe for absolute disaster and chaos, considering petrol's far greater destructive potential than just about any firearm on Earth (barring perhaps a grenade launcher)? And yet despite easy access to this dangerous substance, we don't see teachers torching entire schools full of kids after having a "bad day", we don't see disputing neighbours torching each others houses, we don't see sadistic nutters lobbing petrol bombs into crowded high streets, we barely even see any petrol related accidents and injuries. It's almost as if people can infact be trusted to handle extremely dangerous things without ever doing anything stupid or endangering themselves or others, and without the government holding their hand.

 

It might sound counter intuitive to our modern nannied society, but I believe excessively regulated environments that absolve people of their personal responsibility will only end up breeding irresponsible people ("I don't need to think anymore, the state does that for me now"), who are far more dangerous to themselves and society than those who grow up in a more unregulated environment where responsibility for your life and your choices rests soley with you and common sense is quickly learned or else you get hurt. It's a terrifying self fulfilling prophecy in a way. The more people are nannied and regulated, the more stupid and flighty they tend to become (and I have seen this occur in people with my own eyes), thus they require even more nannying and regulation, repeat ad infinitum.... or until society totally collapses into itself.

 

Anyway, that's my late night ramble done with. Hope I am making at least some sense to people.