Albert 888 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I have a tasco worldclass plus 8-32 1/8" clicks on my howa 1500 308,its zeroed at 100m. Went on the range today at 300m and the elevation turret maxed out after two full revaluations. What picaninny rail will be best to gain more elevation. Im stuck as I am wanting to stretch its legs out to 600m 800m and 1000m. In an ideal world I would buy a much better scope ,but at this point in time I realistically cant afford one. Other option is I could put my leupold tactical on with mill dots and 14x and use the dots but they are to big. Its mainly for target. Cheers Albert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Can you not simply put a piece of packing (old 35mm film cannister is best) under the scope at the rear mount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 If you fit a 20moa rail it will get you well past 600yds. An easier alternative solution would be to get some Burris rings with the plastic inserts. These work very well and allow you to centre up your scope (or give more elevation) easily. If your scope has a 25mm tube there are a greater range of inserts available, if it's 30mm there is still +20moa inserts available. They fit on a standard Weaver base. http://burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html http://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/products.asp?cat=Burris+Signature+Zee+Weaver+Rifle+Scope+Rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Can you not simply put a piece of packing (old 35mm film cannister is best) under the scope at the rear mount? No offense and thanks for the info,and its proberbly how they have done it for years,but I would rather do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 No offense and thanks for the info,and its proberbly how they have done it for years,but I would rather do it right. then it's mounts/rail that you need - like 1066 said. Shouldn't cost the earth, from memory for my sako a rail that would do this would have been about £150 and imo nearly anything for a sako is overpriced, especially anything to do with mounting a scope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 If you fit a 20moa rail it will get you well past 600yds. An easier alternative solution would be to get some Burris rings with the plastic inserts. These work very well and allow you to centre up your scope (or give more elevation) easily. If your scope has a 25mm tube there are a greater range of inserts available, if it's 30mm there is still +20moa inserts available. They fit on a standard Weaver base. http://burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html http://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/products.asp?cat=Burris+Signature+Zee+Weaver+Rifle+Scope+Rings Does 20 moa at 100 yrds equate to 20" more elevation at 100 yrds. The rail would be better for me than the rings as it would be less hastle for me. Thanks Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Does 20 moa at 100 yrds equate to 20" more elevation at 100 yrds. The rail would be better for me than the rings as it would be less hastle for me. Thanks Albert More or less. Rule of thumb is about 1" per MOA at 100yds (actual 1.047") You really need to find out how much adjustment you have in total in the scope and how much you will need. This will depend on your maximum range you will be shooting and the load you will be using. Run the figures through a ballistic program like: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.borisov.strelok&hl=en_GB This will tell you how much you need. In my experience with Howa's I've found the scope mounting screws on the action are not always accurately drilled so if fitting a rail you might find you run out of windage one way or the other, using the rings with inserts will overcome this problem and are very easy to juggle around and line up. It depends how much you want to spend on a rail but I've just recently fitted one of these to a Savage and although they are aluminium I think they are good value. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/231302836266?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I have 45 moa adjustment on my scope in 1/8 clicks one full roatation gives me 7.5 moa. So a zero at 100m leaves me with around 11.5 moa of elvation left,if I fit a 20moa rail that will then give me a usable 31.5moa and I think that will only take me to around 400-500 yards,so still not ehat im wanting. Im going to have a very long hard think about what I am wanting to achive and where I go from there. Im getting bogged down with to much info and trying to do too much in a short time. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Albert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Give mag357 a pm he put a rail on his rifle and that takes him out to 1000 yds plus at Bisley.. If i remember he got his from third eye tactical from near leeds i believe they make them to suit any rifle I'm going to put one on my howa1500 eventually... http://thirdeyetactical.com/scope-rails.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) I have 45 moa adjustment on my scope in 1/8 clicks one full roatation gives me 7.5 moa. So a zero at 100m leaves me with around 11.5 moa of elvation left,if I fit a 20moa rail that will then give me a usable 31.5moa and I think that will only take me to around 400-500 yards,so still not ehat im wanting. Im going to have a very long hard think about what I am wanting to achive and where I go from there. Im getting bogged down with to much info and trying to do too much in a short time. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Albert. 31 moa with a .308 should get you well out there but not quite to 1000yds. Just guessing some figure here - Velocity 2,700fps, scope/bore height 1.7", 155gn bullet, CE 0.5 and zeroed at 100 yds. 100yds = 0 200 = 1.85 moa 300 = 4.49 moa 400 = 7.56 moa 500 = 11.2 moa 600 = 14.88 moa 800 = 24.01 moa 1000 = 35.48 moa 14.88 moa at 600 yards is 93.5 inches. Edit: Don't forget that 1 moa is 1" at 100 yds but 1 moa at 6000 yds is around 6" Edited August 17, 2014 by 1066 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I would have thought off hand 10 MOA would do what you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 31 moa with a .308 should get you well out there but not quite to 1000yds. Just guessing some figure here - Velocity 2,700fps, scope/bore height 1.7", 155gn bullet, CE 0.5 and zeroed at 100 yds. 100yds = 0 200 = 1.85 moa 300 = 4.49 moa 400 = 7.56 moa 500 = 11.2 moa 600 = 14.88 moa 800 = 24.01 moa 1000 = 35.48 moa 14.88 moa at 600 yards is 93.5 inches. Edit: Don't forget that 1 moa is 1" at 100 yds but 1 moa at 6000 yds is around 6" Thanks for that,i did forget sorry my fault. Im over worked and very tired and lack of sleep as working nights is not helping much. 308 1/10" twist 24" barrel Lapua cases Cci br primers 37.5g of vit 140 155 Lapua scenar heads Unsure of the scope hight but its 50 mm lense on high mounts with a 25mm tube. On my days off I will meausure everything correctly and find out the velocity. Thanks again for your time and patience. I would have thought off hand 10 MOA would do what you wantThanks for that, will work everything out and go from there. Give mag357 a pm he put a rail on his rifle and that takes him out to 1000 yds plus at Bisley.. If i remember he got his from third eye tactical from near leeds i believe they make them to suit any rifle I'm going to put one on my howa1500 eventually... http://thirdeyetactical.com/scope-rails.html Thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1066 Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I think those guesswork figures won't be far out Albert. The BC of the 155 gn scenar's is .046, it should be within a few clicks either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Have you chronoed that load by the way or are you estimating 2700 fps? You may be a little enthusiasticin doing so! I'd doubt its anywhere near that as you are about 8 grains short of what most shooters of that combo seem to like. No I havent yet. Im going round in circles at the moment. I found that load best out of what I had loaded at 100m,still need to work up more loads near the top end. Good range time is proving difficult as working wkends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I have a tasco worldclass plus 8-32 1/8" clicks on my howa 1500 308,its zeroed at 100m. Went on the range today at 300m and the elevation turret maxed out after two full revaluations. What picaninny rail will be best to gain more elevation. Im stuck as I am wanting to stretch its legs out to 600m 800m and 1000m. In an ideal world I would buy a much better scope ,but at this point in time I realistically cant afford one. Other option is I could put my leupold tactical on with mill dots and 14x and use the dots but they are to big. Its mainly for target. Cheers Albert. The turrets moving but nothings happening inside? or you are in a Jamb with the windage blocking further elevation? My bet its been FT'd to death a GP course has 50 targets a normal Sunday morning practice will see a FT guy wind his elevation up or down maybe 100 times. You can get a 30 moa but I think your wasting your time with the scope. This scope must be older than some PW members. I am of course assuming there is no mounting error in any way, either way it wants a good coat of looking at before you waste money on more bits to try and fix it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 The turrets moving but nothings happening inside? or you are in a Jamb with the windage blocking further elevation? My bet its been FT'd to death a GP course has 50 targets a normal Sunday morning practice will see a FT guy wind his elevation up or down maybe 100 times. You can get a 30 moa but I think your wasting your time with the scope. This scope must be older than some PW members. I am of course assuming there is no mounting error in any way, either way it wants a good coat of looking at before you waste money on more bits to try and fix it The scope is quite good and tracks very well. Had no problems zeroing it only took minimal shots to be bang on at 100m. Its even quite good wound up on 32 mag can see yhe 308 hols on a white back ground at 300, I ran out of elevation at 300m, had to shoot 24" ish above the v bull to hit it. Could be im using to light a charge but its grouping at 100 well. Going to spend a full day on a private range near mine to work a higher charge load up. Min load is 36.7g at 2227fps and max is 43.3g at 2624fps in my book under vit powders using n140 cci br primers and lapua cases wuth 155 lapua scenars. I only have 12 moa adjustment left being zeroed at 100m. diled 12 moa on the elevation and still wasnt on the v bull is that 36" at 300. Im all mixed up now, even more than when I started. There could be somthing wrong with the scope or load if diled in that much and it still never put me on the v bull. Or it could be just me being thick and missing the obvious as in 1/8 clicks arent the same as 1/4 click or somthing,or I could be expecting to much from myself. But the 223 and the other tasco worldclass scope does sub moa groups at 300 when I trickle every charge instead of being lazy and just going of the powder thrower that does a differnt weight every charge. Im going back to basics:'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 The scope is quite good and tracks very well. Had no problems zeroing it only took minimal shots to be bang on at 100m. Its even quite good wound up on 32 mag can see yhe 308 hols on a white back ground at 300, I ran out of elevation at 300m, had to shoot 24" ish above the v bull to hit it. Could be im using to light a charge but its grouping at 100 well. Going to spend a full day on a private range near mine to work a higher charge load up. Min load is 36.7g at 2227fps and max is 43.3g at 2624fps in my book under vit powders using n140 cci br primers and lapua cases wuth 155 lapua scenars. I only have 12 moa adjustment left being zeroed at 100m. diled 12 moa on the elevation and still wasnt on the v bull is that 36" at 300. Im all mixed up now, even more than when I started. There could be somthing wrong with the scope or load if diled in that much and it still never put me on the v bull. Or it could be just me being thick and missing the obvious as in 1/8 clicks arent the same as 1/4 click or somthing,or I could be expecting to much from myself. But the 223 and the other tasco worldclass scope does sub moa groups at 300 when I trickle every charge instead of being lazy and just going of the powder thrower that does a differnt weight every charge. Im going back to basics:'( 2200 fps with a 140 grain, that's slower than a HMR! Don't be a Sissy I am not recommending you go as over loaded as I did (and did well with) but that's a spud gun . I really cant sat what's up ( we all do dumb stuff now and again, like having a loose back mount ) but you say it tracks well, have you shot a dialled in box at 100 at max and seen it go back to the same spot ? Hang on are these book speeds or Cronographed? The two don't always tie up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Ok guys thanks for all the valuable information, most of it has finally sunk in and I have learned the lesson once agian,you cant reinvent the wheel. After sitting down with a mate we whent through the ballistic apps and found out im using no where near the powder weight I need to be at to get what I want,as allready mentioned by pw members before. More powder and a 20ma rail and the use of a chronograph to work everything out correctly,then save all data for future reference. I was being a bad workman blaming my tools, instead of listening in the first place. BIG THANKS TO ALL CONTRIBUTORS on my post. Im off to eat humble pie once again. Edited August 18, 2014 by Albert 888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Glad we were of some help i have a program on my lap top that lets you put in all the data ,,,bullet weight ....type and weight of powder and other things as well and it gives you all the information... Like powder burn ....speed......pressure, its very good but cannot remember what the program is called and cannot be bothered to boot lap top up tonight if you are interested let me know and will find out the name.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Glad we were of some help i have a program on my lap top that lets you put in all the data ,,,bullet weight ....type and weight of powder and other things as well and it gives you all the information... Like powder burn ....speed......pressure, its very good but cannot remember what the program is called and cannot be bothered to boot lap top up tonight if you are interested let me know and will find out the name.. Sounds just the thing for me. Next time you boot the laptop up could you pass on the program name to me please. I am not doing well with the scraps of paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Will do that tomorrow for you when i get back from shooting weather permitted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Can't be bothered to press a few buttons Hawkeye. What you been doing, staying up to late in the penthouse. Figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Hardly been to the penthouse the bait isn't been touched no point in going till the bait started to disappear . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Sounds just the thing for me. Next time you boot the laptop up could you pass on the program name to me please. I am not doing well with the scraps of paper The program we use is called QUICKLOAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have quickload here, give us a call and have a play with it next time your up I will show you what it can / cant do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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