rich_morris Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 I bought a new B725 (not the Black, just and S1) 18 months ago. Whilst I have not seen the problem you have got, I had an issue with mine. There was very slight play between the fore end wood and the barrels. I spoke to the RFD, and they said that was not abnormal due to the tolerances of wood. After a few more rounds I eventually decided to take the gun back to the RFD to show them. Initially, with the gun assembled, they maintained their point of view - tolerance of wood - but offered to send it back to BWM/Browning to have it checked out. I decided to try that, as I wasn't happy. When the gun was disassembled to put in the case, the RFD noticed that the whole fore end was loose on the barrels. There was obviously clearance between the metal parts. The RFD said that was a definite fault, sent the gun away expecting a repair to be done. Browning then kept the gun for some time, and allegedly sent it to Belgium to be checked out. Eventually, I got a new replacement gun, which now seems fine (may be a bit sticky on the top lever occasionally now, I notice), but it does dent your confidence, in what is supposed to be a high quality, robust product. The gun has a 10 year warranty on the action - if it keeps getting worse, you have plenty of time to get it sorted. But, keep persevering with the shop and browning. The two big manufacturers are letting themselves down with quality of guns, and their importers are not helping the situation either. Good Luck! Hope it works out for you as it did for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 The RFD's I dealt with have been excellent in every facet. My axe to grind is with the UK importers. Browning have a poor reputation in the UK gun trade for end user customer service. Its the poor dealers who usually end up being moaned at by disgruntled customers. Legally its down to the seller not the importer/manufacturer SoG etc......... and B2B law is totally different to B2C... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Rich Morris and Mark Browning. Would you both be as kind to either pm me with pictures of both sides of your barrels or post them onto this thread. Much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_morris Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Rich Morris and Mark Browning. Would you both be as kind to either pm me with pictures of both sides of your barrels or post them onto this thread. Much appreciated! I can do, but mine is not jewelled finish (its not a posh one!), and is not showing any particular wear. Its never been mirror smooth though. Will try an get piccys tomorrow for you... As an aside, the same jewelled finish never rubbed off on my Beretta 687, which I had for 20+ years.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_morris Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Not my gun, but mine looks like the picture in this link. As I said, its always looked like that, and has not changed, since new. The bluing is just slightly worn where it meets the action. http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/shotgun/gun-reviews-browning-b725-hunter-g1-shotgun I'll get my gun out tomorrow and take a piccy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastair0903 Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 I have just had a closer inspection of my black edition and although it is showing slight ware on the turning . This is after around 6 or 7 hundred shots . I would say mine is looking more like it is the right hand side wearing first and I am right handed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Slight wear meaning light scuffs or polished completely through the turning to the bare metal below over the entire width of the section. Even if it isn't engine turned, the surface will show contact marks if it is touching. It would be much appreciated if owners of 725's could post pictures of that area for a comparison. Either it will set my mind at rest or give me more ammunition in my quest of getting it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 a303, can you post up some pics of your gun for us to have a look at. I will dig my 725 out the cabinet tomorrow and have a look and take a photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted September 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 Unfortunately my gun is still at the dealers as I refuse to accept it until it's sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markbrowning Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 A303 - Any use to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 A303 - Any use to you? This is normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Thank you for those pics. Yours appears to have even wear on both side where the blueing has rubbed off. Hard to tell the condition of the lower portion without the engine turning present. Could you do a close up pic of the left hand side where invector ds and the barrel length is stamped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markbrowning Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'll wipe off the oil on both side and see if I can get a really close picture on both sides on the lower portion. Will post up this afternoon for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markbrowning Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Here we go A303: Left side Right side Appears more wear on the left hand side, but nothing than concerns me..... unless people tell me otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Once again, thank you very much for the pictures. Can you tell me how old the gun is and how many shots you've put through it?? Any chance of someone posting the same of a black edition with engine turning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Chaps, these are normal markings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Dodeer, can you post pictures of your 725 for comparison if poss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markbrowning Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Once again, thank you very much for the pictures. Can you tell me how old the gun is and how many shots you've put through it?? Any chance of someone posting the same of a black edition with engine turning? No worries, so what is engine turning anyhow? How does that wear differ to yours? Would be really helpful to see your gun, can you get your gunsmith to take some pictures? Gun is around 1.5 years old and no fewer than two thousand perhaps..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I May be wrong but does not Miroku Japan now own Browning and all current Brownings are made by Miroku in Japan and very little if any hand finishing of parts is done so I would be surprised if any lamp black finishing is done as the parts fall from a modern CNC machine.So I would not expect the wear you are getting on such a new gun. They are not like the old Browning A1 made and finished in Belgium. Fight on and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Dodeer, can you post pictures of your 725 for comparison if poss? Hi, sorry don't own any Japanese Brownings. I have a C4 from Leige. My gun has markings like that but has a highly polished area. Go into a gun shop and ask to look at a used 325/425/525 and see what they look like is my only suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I May be wrong but does not Miroku Japan now own Browning and all current Brownings are made by Miroku in Japan and very little if any hand finishing of parts is done so I would be surprised if any lamp black finishing is done as the parts fall from a modern CNC machine.So I would not expect the wear you are getting on such a new gun. They are not like the old Browning A1 made and finished in Belgium. Fight on and good luck. FN HErstal and miroku own the browning name, the brownings of the X25 series and derivatives are made by miroku, the cynergy is mostly miroku but some work done in belgium IIRC my 525 has similar marks on the action IIRC never bothered me but it doesn't have engine turning It can be seen on this beretta, it does wear and need redoing over the life of the gun if you wish to keep the look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_morris Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Does the gun open and lose smoothly in all other respects? If there was anything seriously wrong (remember I haven't seen your problem) you would notice it then. The barrels can not be mis-aligned, or the lumps on the bottom of the barrel would not pass through the bottom of the action cleanly, unless those holes were also out of position, in which case you would have a whole host of other issues with all the other moving parts. Does everything else align as it should? My gun exhibits exactly the same finish and markings as those shown above by Markbrowning. most the marks there are from manufacture, as wear marks would be radial around the hinge pin. It is about 18 months old and has 2500 carts through it. It is still very tight. I can understand that you have paid a premium for a higher grade gun than the standard, and it would annoy me if that extra finish just wore off. But those surfaces rub against each other, so wear will occur. Providing there are no significant gouges or scratches radial to the hinge pin I wouldn't worry unduly. There is a 10 year guarantee on the action. Use the gun, and if it goes wrong, use that guarantee. Rich PS - keep the gun closed and you'll not see it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoz82 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I know it's a different gun but none of the beretta's I've owned have ever wore the jewling away, surely this is not normal wear if it was me I'd be doing the same as a303 and demanding a new replacement gun or my money back !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a303 Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 They advertise lamp blacking as the method of building the b25's . As the sales rep at browning was telling me, 'assembled and fitted by hand, using lamp blacking by a skilled gun smith' When I mentioned the fact that they are made by miroku he replied ' yes by a Japanese skilled gun smith' Once I applied a bit of pressure he quickly changed the subject. Think I've been getting told porkies. They'll be a big machine spitting em out. If they had been lamp blacked and fitted by hand, It wouldn't have the left hand side wearing off. They also said the engine turning is to disguise the machine marks on the barrel. I will post pictures of my gun when I / If I get it back. Doubt the dealer will forward pictures on as they have washed their hands of it. When I was told it wouldn't be getting fixed ( before I started complaining) I asked very very politely if they would be kind enough to speak to browning on my behalf and convey my disappointment to them and ask browning if they could do any thing at all about it as it was very disappointing on a brand new gun. They couldn't even be bothered to ring me back. I could say a lot more on this matter but ultimately if I do end up in small claims court, I'm holding enough ammo back in case they are reading this. The wear to the blacked part uppermost has worn like yours on the left hand side. But the lower part has been polished through to the metal below the engine turning. Where yours appears to have most of the original surface ground finish left on both sides. On mine the left hand side is tatty and the right hand side is unmarked. In my eyes there has not been enough clearance allowed on the left hand side hence the friction wearing away the surface. I'm kicking myself for not measuring the clearances with some feeler guages. Ultimately, if I am forced to collect the gun, I will be getting multiple independent gun smith reports and will then decide the best way to proceed. The one trusted gunsmith I have already spoken to regarding the matter has agreed that it shouldn't touch and that there has obviously been clearance issue. Looking at 2nd hand Brownings advertised on guntrader and gun watch ,do not show the same uneven wear that mine has even when they are a few years old and older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Reet...... I have just popped and checked my Browning Ultra XS made in 1999 and owned by me from new apart from 12 months (Long story) It has no wear marks in the area you describe, the barrel blacking which has started to wear in the above Browning pictures has not occurred on mine. Whether mine was made in an era of better quality I don't know, but I wouldn't be happy with yours as you describe Mine is not engine turned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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