Coupl of queries before her first dy out.

[kent]

all very true kent and well said. But my only point is , from the day a half decent trainer gets his/her young pup they try to install the main factor and that is to get the dog to retrieve and deliver to hand. This is something that I would want engraved before I done anything more advanced as how can you train a dog that won't deliver. I just can't for love nor money work out how you've installed the drop and go after something else command when you must of had your dog delivering to hand through out its traing days.

 

 

I have seen this achieved by a top trailer in his dogs and demonstrated during a display, the dogs would drop stuff on a whistle ( I think he said it was to stop them bringing in bird he thought might have been pegged, hence increasing the bag unfairly ). However like I thought I had pointed out the dog worked out that wounded birds are easy lost and best dealt with as priority, I have no argument with him on this matter. Even if I loose the dead one (which I haven't thus far) my priority is to collect the wounded up and minimise any suffering caused by my bad shooting. I doubt the dog thinks more than "flappers are more fun or better get that one nailed before I loose the chance" Again if I disagree I can over rule

A dog really does have to think for itself in situations that cannot be set up or scored, to me a dog that is truly wise and the ability to work stuff out for itself beats over reliance on the handler. I have done the latter and it just don't work for me

 

Quite early on in retrieving training I start with blind retrieves in the dark just sending the dog out on a rough direction to hunt, very useful to me on evening flight and totally useless to most driven shots or trainers if you read the books! Who cares its what the owner wants and what they alone should train for or yes allow the dog to do

[bull dog]

Well said Kent I also rely more on my dogs judgment more often than not after all they no more about hunting than we can ever grasp or understand I also conditioned my dogs on night shoots in the early days to teach them to use their nose rather than their eyes and I also have never lost quary tip hat

[jayDT10]

 

 

I have seen this achieved by a top trailer in his dogs and demonstrated during a display, the dogs would drop stuff on a whistle ( I think he said it was to stop them bringing in bird he thought might have been pegged, hence increasing the bag unfairly ). However like I thought I had pointed out the dog worked out that wounded birds are easy lost and best dealt with as priority, I have no argument with him on this matter. Even if I loose the dead one (which I haven't thus far) my priority is to collect the wounded up and minimise any suffering caused by my bad shooting. I doubt the dog thinks more than "flappers are more fun or better get that one nailed before I loose the chance" Again if I disagree I can over rule

A dog really does have to think for itself in situations that cannot be set up or scored, to me a dog that is truly wise and the ability to work stuff out for itself beats over reliance on the handler. I have done the latter and it just don't work for me

 

Quite early on in retrieving training I start with blind retrieves in the dark just sending the dog out on a rough direction to hunt, very useful to me on evening flight and totally useless to most driven shots or trainers if you read the books! Who cares its what the owner wants and what they alone should train for or yes allow the dog to do

why on earth would somone want their dog to drop a bird without inspecting it to see if it has been hit. Your full of it mate.

[rimfire4969]

The primary purpose of a gundog in the field is to prevent the escape of wounded game, the second is to gather that which the shooter himself cannot either find or swim out to. A gundog shouldn't normally be asked gather that which the owner can easily pick up easily themselves I could not agree more with that statement finally a true dog man that knows his onions tip hat

I guess you are referring to fowling. Cause if you are rough shooting the dog finding the game has to be in there somewhere.

[bull dog]

Yes I am referring to fowling it seems to me we all have different needs or requirements from our dogs what one man will except another will not it is all down to the individual owner handler as long as the dog works for you and your needs that's all that matters the proof is in the pudding as they say AVB

[Bogwoppit]

We were out again on Sunday at a duck shoot, just doing some picking up this time.

 

There weren't as many birds about this time but the first retrieve we got was a pretty good one. There was a bird down in a wide channel when we arrived the wind was blowing it further all the time. The dog couldn't see it so I sent her out blind. She spotted it when she got out about 30 yards and went straight for it. I measured the distance after on google maps and the swim was about 120 yards, well impressed.

 

She also managed to find 2 birds that at least 5 other dogs had been sent for and another wounded bird that hadn't been spotted.

 

Didn't get a chance to try her with 2 birds in the water though but we're still working on it with the dummys.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Al

[kent]

why on earth would somone want their dog to drop a bird without inspecting it to see if it has been hit. Your full of it mate.

I doubt you could argue with the chap that did this and gave his reasons very credibly as he is one of the biggest names ever in gundogs. what a mature last sentence.

[kent]

I guess you are referring to fowling. Cause if you are rough shooting the dog finding the game has to be in there somewhere.

Actually I should have said retriever, it applies to all but hunting, flushing and pointing breeds. Not that retrievers are no use hunting but it could maybe come after all that

[victorismyhero]

Agree 100% kent, I dont do wildfowling , its wet cold and smelly, but I can see how it has its attractions, certainly its a challenge. I dont do "driven pheasant" either, preferring walked up above all else.

It seems to me too many folks get bogged down with gundog training. At the end of the day what YOU want in a dog is different to what I want, or what Joe up the road wants.

My springer is a 3yo rehome (got him at 2 1/2 ) and has been training since february. Hes "not there " yet but has come on in leaps and bounds, He's never going to make FTC, but he is shapeing up to be an ideal walked up companion.

And surely Thats the point....horses for courses.

I applaud your stance on the ethics of "making sure" of wounded quarry.

[loriusgarrulus]

If you have shot anything and it is wounded it should be the priority over anything dead. The dead do not suffer once they are dead that's it . If they float away on the tide and you lose them at least they are not suffering, disappointing as it is.

 

Anything wounded is going to leg it if it can and hide making it harder to find and if not found is going to suffer and die slowly and that is the responsibility of the shooter.

 

From an ethical and moral point of view wounded should always be a priority over dead game.

[jayDT10]

I doubt you could argue with the chap that did this and gave his reasons very credibly as he is one of the biggest names ever in gundogs. what a mature last sentence.

sorry kent , but I can't see any positives in the whole drop business . What ever my dog has in its mouth gets brought to me , if I drop a winged bird and a dead bird of course the winged bird is priority . But if my dog is on the way back with what I think is a dead bird and I shoot another on his return and it's winged we will search for it when he has handed me the bird and I know its dead . Just answer me this as we give priority to runners why would anyone have their dog drop a bird on a pheasant shoot without inspecting it to see if it has indeed been shot. Edited September 16, 2014 by jayDT10

[E.w.]

sorry kent , but I can't see any positives in the whole drop business . What ever my dog has in its mouth gets brought to me , if I drop a winged bird and a dead bird of course the winged bird is priority . But if my dog is on the way back with what I think is a dead bird and I shoot another on his return and it's winged we will search for it when he has handed me the bird and I know its dead . Just answer me this as we give priority to runners why would anyone have their dog drop a bird on a pheasant shoot without inspecting it to see if it has indeed been shot.

I would like to point out that you should not shoot a bird whilst the dog is retrieving on the foreshore this is a no no, however it's different on a pheasant shoot.

[jayDT10]

I would like to point out that you should not shoot a bird whilst the dog is retrieving on the foreshore this is a no no, however it's different on a pheasant shoot.

what !. I've shot many of duck whilst working my dog and never remember a time when I'd class it as a NO NO . Edited September 16, 2014 by jayDT10

[loriusgarrulus]

And today's bag was 2 geese, 1 duck and 1 Labrador. :(

[E.w.]

what !. I've shot many of duck whilst working my dog and never remember a time when I'd class it as a NO NO .

I'm not having a go at you are you talking inland duck shooting or foreshore shooting, the reasons are obvious I've seen a spaniel drown on the foreshore in a tidal run because the dog had seen the second duck shot and turned back with the first duck still in his mouth, lets say that's not a good thing to witness.

Edited September 16, 2014 by E.w.

[kent]

sorry kent , but I can't see any positives in the whole drop business . What ever my dog has in its mouth gets brought to me , if I drop a winged bird and a dead bird of course the winged bird is priority . But if my dog is on the way back with what I think is a dead bird and I shoot another on his return and it's winged we will search for it when he has handed me the bird and I know its dead . Just answer me this as we give priority to runners why would anyone have their dog drop a bird on a pheasant shoot without inspecting it to see if it has indeed been shot.

 

you must ask the gent in question not me I just put down how he presented the facts. If you think of the top three gundog men in the UK he is one of them

[kent]

I'm not having a go at you are you talking inland duck shooting or foreshore shooting, the reasons are obvious I've seen a spaniel drown on the foreshore in a tidal run because the dog had seen the second duck shot and turned back with the first duck still in his mouth, lets say that's not a good thing to witness.

 

And has more to do with it being in the water at the wrong stage of tide than shooting a second. also more to do with not obeying stop and recall than being unsteady to the second bird. Lets face it what if it had run in? normally you hold off shooting over water when tide is too quick to retrieve the slain

[jayDT10]

I'm not having a go at you are you talking inland duck shooting or foreshore shooting, the reasons are obvious I've seen a spaniel drown on the foreshore in a tidal run because the dog had seen the second duck shot and turned back with the first duck still in his mouth, lets say that's not a good thing to witness.

i see your piont , but I train all my dogs to bring back to hand what ever is going on. All through their training I throw distraction dummy's whilst they are on the way in and even roll tennis balls across the front of them . I can assure sure that as long as my dog can hear the return whistle it will come in. This is why I think the whole drop business is not good as I think steadiness will be lossed.

[E.w.]

i see your piont , but I train all my dogs to bring back to hand what ever is going on. All through their training I throw distraction dummy's whilst they are on the way in and even roll tennis balls across the front of them . I can assure sure that as long as my dog can hear the return whistle it will come in. This is why I think the whole drop business is not good as I think steadiness will be lossed.

Fair play to you that's a good thing having a sound recall on your dog, I don't agree with the drop thing and have never witness such an event even when I was trailing dogs in the eighties it's has no real purpose less you wish to show people your dog has a new trick.

[jayDT10]

Fair play to you that's a good thing having a sound recall on your dog, I don't agree with the drop thing and have never witness such an event even when I was trailing dogs in the eighties it's has no real purpose less you wish to show people your dog has a new trick.

I'm glad it's not just me that thinks so. Kent, the chap must of explained to your good self why he felt the need to install this drop thing into his dog so you could always forward on his reasons.

[E.w.]

I'm glad it's not just me that thinks so. Kent, the chap must of explained to your good self why he felt the need to install this drop thing into his dog so you could always forward on his reasons.

As I've said this drop exercise has no real mileage as far as training the gundog goes if you wish to advance train your dog for no real reason so be it. I would like to see that trick carried out on your local shoot the head keeper might have something to say about that stunt.

Edited September 17, 2014 by E.w.

[kent]

I'm glad it's not just me that thinks so. Kent, the chap must of explained to your good self why he felt the need to install this drop thing into his dog so you could always forward on his reasons.

 

I think if you look I already did, but it was on per bird days.

[jayDT10]

 

I think if you look I already did, but it was on per bird days.

Oh yeah in case it picks a bird that hasn't been shot. Well I could just about understand this theory in the beating line with spaniels but if your referring to doing this in the picking up team then I'll say its a load of rubbish and the bird should be checked over before dispatch or release. Edited September 18, 2014 by jayDT10

[kent]

Oh yeah in case it picks a bird that hasn't been shot. Well I could just about understand this theory in the beating line with spaniels but if your referring to doing this in the picking up team then I'll say its a load of rubbish and the bird should be checked over before dispatch or release.

 

I think I respect the other guys opinion and personal reason a lot more being one of the top three of all time. Personally my own views on driven pheasant is pretty well known