David BASC Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I believe that one person has been found with their guns in a totally unsecure location, what the outcome will be for that chap I don't yet know. Durham - waiting to see my colleague, I will find out, but knowing Durham, it wont be fixed overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) I taught all my children how to behave and respect others years ago.I do not intend trying to do it on here.I respect David for coming on here trying to help and give advice.And as you hinted the other organisations are conspicuous by there absence.also on the subject of these Emotive threads as you call them what has the other organisations achieved as far as medical reports. And the unanounced visits are concerned. What about your attack on me on anouther thread when i ask who will pay and your answer was because you speak what you think we dont like it practise what you preach Edited November 20, 2014 by Rim Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) What about your attack on me on anouther thread when i ask who will pay and your answer was because you speak what you think we dont like it practise what you preach I am very sorry if you felt it attacked you in any way it was not intended to be so.However I do feel that we and everyone whatever you are wanting should pay for your pleasure..if the cost of the licensing process was met purely by those wishing to use firearms then nobody could complain about us taking valuable resources away from other areas.I pay £140 a year or thereabouts for membership to basc/cpsa so I dont consider a little extra cost every five years to be unreasonable for my certificates. Atb Edited November 20, 2014 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 From day 1 on this thread I've always thought "what is the issue" mine and my dad's guns are locked away if I have carts in the house they are kept separate as suggested. If I'm here then no dramas ill show them and talk to them. The guns are always stored away unless for cleaning purposes or for dry mounting at the min. as to people knowing I have guns my neighbours see me most sunday mornings loading the car up to go shooting. I'm not going to treat it like a dirty little secret but just as much I'm going to blatantly risk security. As regards to the basc thing quickly on this thread and many others it does turn into a witch hunt. As I've said on previous threads don't see any other of these super organisations that people rant and rave about putting the time in and taking the **** and carp like David does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I believe that one person has been found with their guns in a totally unsecure location, what the outcome will be for that chap I don't yet know. How did they know his firearms were in an unsecure location. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I don't know the full details I am afraid, and to be honest until the matter is resolved I would not want to post details on here, I hope you understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 How did they know his firearms were in an unsecure location. ? really does not matter how they knew the fact is they were not secure.so this just gives them more ammunition to throw at us.as much as some would like to claim being offended by the visits there are always some who will let us down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 This is the thing everyone going on about unannounced visits, yes everyone on here may keep their guns all secure all of the time. But not everyone who has a sgc or fac is on here. Same in most things in life only takes a handful of people to get sloppy and get silly with their weapons and it affects us all. All us law abiding certificate holding people acting like petulant children going on about they have no rights to come in. If you want to carry on standing your ground then find, but it will come to a point when arguments like that will start to give shooters a bad name. If you have nothing to hide and its convenient then just let them do there thing, i no i will. At the end of the day we start being ***** on the door who knows what will happen with your renewal, oh look mr smith is at the top at lets shuffle him down a few places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 This is the thing everyone going on about unannounced visits, yes everyone on here may keep their guns all secure all of the time. But not everyone who has a sgc or fac is on here. Same in most things in life only takes a handful of people to get sloppy and get silly with their weapons and it affects us all. Very true. We all get tarred with the same brush. As do politicians, police officers, people on benefits and muslims. Carp innit? I doubt we'll ever learn. All us law abiding certificate holding people acting like petulant children going on about they have no rights to come in. I'm not sure if anyone on here has actually claimed 'they have no rights to come in' have they? If you want to carry on standing your ground then find, but it will come to a point when arguments like that will start to give shooters a bad name. UK shooters already have a bad name, surely you're aware of that? If you have nothing to hide and its convenient then just let them do there thing, i no i will. Good for you. I probably will also if it's convenient. At the end of the day we start being ***** on the door who knows what will happen with your renewal, oh look mr smith is at the top at lets shuffle him down a few places. So are you suggesting we should comply with whatever ACPO and our licensing authorities decide we should comply with, for fear of how it will otherwise effect us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 We should absolutely not simply comply no matter what in my view. There is clear Home Office guidance on licencing, and I think we should expect the licencing teams to comply with that. Of course, there is no merit in being unreasonable or 'bullish' with the police, but polite and firm yes. If you get an unannounced visit then ask why? Its clear in the guidance (but not necessarily in the letter that ACPO sent to police authorities) that unannounced visits should only be conducted based on specific evidence, so ask what that specific evidence is. Like Scully, if it was convenient I would more than likely let the police in if they come calling, if not convenient I would politely ask if they could call back a bit later. My guns are safe and secure, the keys hidden. It would not bother me if the reason given was that although there was nothing that had brought me to their attention, they had intelligence say that there were likely to be burglaries in the area, or they had a tip off that some crooks were going to target gun owners in the area and hey just wanted to give me a heads up - fair enough. Frankly I suspect most forces have far better things to do than come knocking on our doors just in case they can catch someone out. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 This is the thing everyone going on about unannounced visits, yes everyone on here may keep their guns all secure all of the time. But not everyone who has a sgc or fac is on here. Same in most things in life only takes a handful of people to get sloppy and get silly with their weapons and it affects us all. Very true. We all get tarred with the same brush. As do politicians, police officers, people on benefits and muslims. Carp innit? I doubt we'll ever learn. All us law abiding certificate holding people acting like petulant children going on about they have no rights to come in. I'm not sure if anyone on here has actually claimed 'they have no rights to come in' have they? If you want to carry on standing your ground then find, but it will come to a point when arguments like that will start to give shooters a bad name. UK shooters already have a bad name, surely you're aware of that? If you have nothing to hide and its convenient then just let them do there thing, i no i will. Good for you. I probably will also if it's convenient. At the end of the day we start being ***** on the door who knows what will happen with your renewal, oh look mr smith is at the top at lets shuffle him down a few places. So are you suggesting we should comply with whatever ACPO and our licensing authorities decide we should comply with, for fear of how it will otherwise effect us? No not all like most things in life you have to deal with each issue as it arises. But as it stands in my opinion I see no issue with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 We should absolutely not simply comply no matter what in my view. There is clear Home Office guidance on licencing, and I think we should expect the licencing teams to comply with that. Of course, there is no merit in being unreasonable or 'bullish' with the police, but polite and firm yes. If you get an unannounced visit then ask why? Its clear in the guidance (but not necessarily in the letter that ACPO sent to police authorities) that unannounced visits should only be conducted based on specific evidence, so ask what that specific evidence is. Like Scully, if it was convenient I would more than likely let the police in if they come calling, if not convenient I would politely ask if they could call back a bit later. My guns are safe and secure, the keys hidden. It would not bother me if the reason given was that although there was nothing that had brought me to their attention, they had intelligence say that there were likely to be burglaries in the area, or they had a tip off that some crooks were going to target gun owners in the area and hey just wanted to give me a heads up - fair enough. Frankly I suspect most forces have far better things to do than come knocking on our doors just in case they can catch someone out. David Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 really does not matter how they knew the fact is they were not secure.so this just gives them more ammunition to throw at us.as much as some would like to claim being offended by the visits there are always some who will let us down. It matters if it was an unannounced visit or an intelligence lead visit, as it's relevant to what we are discussing on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 It matters if it was an unannounced visit or an intelligence lead visit, as it's relevant to what we are discussing on this thread. Surely the biggest point of this is that some legal certificate holder was found in breach.so how can anyone argue against these visits when legal firearms are not being kept in line with the rules which are quite clear and concise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Surely the biggest point of this is that some legal certificate holder was found in breach.so how can anyone argue against these visits when legal firearms are not being kept in line with the rules which are quite clear and concise. So do you think the police should have a policy unannounced visits. This was supposed to be about firearms being stolen and used by Islamist terrorist organizations, even though there is no evidence of that happening. The reason that the police want firearms locked up even when you are in the house, is so that they are not used in self defence not in case they are stolen. If the police were serious about stopping firearms being stolen, they would be insisting that they not in the cabinet when you were in the house, to deter people trying to take them of you, and only locked up when you were not in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 So do you think the police should have a policy unannounced visits. This was supposed to be about firearms being stolen and used by Islamist terrorist organizations, even though there is no evidence of that happening. The reason that the police want firearms locked up even when you are in the house, is so that they are not used in self defence not in case they are stolen. If the police were serious about stopping firearms being stolen, they would be insisting that they not in the cabinet when you were in the house, to deter people trying to take them of you, and only locked up when you were not in the house. Interesting point....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 So do you think the police should have a policy unannounced visits. This was supposed to be about firearms being stolen and used by Islamist terrorist organizations, even though there is no evidence of that happening. The reason that the police want firearms locked up even when you are in the house, is so that they are not used in self defence not in case they are stolen. If the police were serious about stopping firearms being stolen, they would be insisting that they not in the cabinet when you were in the house, to deter people trying to take them of you, and only locked up when you were not in the house. there has always been the facility for fao to call and check your firearms arranged or not.can you not see how instances like this one will dilute your protest against visits.if they had done a few hundred of these visits with no negative results then yes the argument would be a good one to cease them but when it goes against us how can you reasonably argue they are not needed.also I fail to see why you would want or need to have your guns out of the cabinet unless you are using them.i for one would be a little concerned if somebody had to have their guns sitting beside them when watching the tv . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 i for one would be a little concerned if somebody had to have their guns sitting beside them when watching the tv . Funnily enough exactly what i was told to do by an instructor, "get your gun out of the cabinet while your watching TV and every time you get up do 5 practise mounts at half speed" this was to build muscle memory. You'd better start worrying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I fail to see why you would want or need to have your guns out of the cabinet unless you are using them.i for one would be a little concerned if somebody had to have their guns sitting beside them when watching the tv . This man could still be alive if he had his firearm beside him when he was watching TV. Having them locked up is about protecting the criminals not the law abiding firearms owner. Templepatrick man Geoff Kerr shot 'defending family' A man was shot through the heart as he tried to defend his family from two men who had forced their way into his home to steal guns, a court has heard. Financial advisor Geoff Kerr was shot dead in Templepatrick on 27 April 2009. Darren Kernohan, 35, from Moss Drive in Antrim and Martin Fleming, from Churchill Road in Larne, both deny murdering the 60-year-old. On Monday, three other co-accused pleaded guilty to associated offences connected to the murder He had lived and worked in the Ballymena area for many years, where he was also a member of a gun club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 This man could still be alive if he had his firearm beside him when he was watching TV. Having them locked up is about protecting the criminals not the law abiding firearms owner. so you now not only want to sit with your guns alongside you but loaded as well.perhaps you should run that one past your firearms dept.unless of course you value your certificate that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Funnily enough exactly what i was told to do by an instructor, "get your gun out of the cabinet while your watching TV and every time you get up do 5 practise mounts at half speed" this was to build muscle memory. You'd better start worrying... I think you are right with some of the posts on here lately.Did he also tell you to keep it loaded incase you needed to shoot anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I think you are right with some of the posts on here lately.Did he also tell you to keep it loaded incase you needed to shoot anyone. No but he did say "If they come for the guns, they'll ask nicely with a pistol to my ribs, not worth dying for" ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 No but he did say "If they come for the guns, they'll ask nicely with a pistol to my ribs, not worth dying for" ........ No handguns are banned.so your safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) so you now not only want to sit with your guns alongside you but loaded as well.perhaps you should run that one past your firearms dept.unless of course you value your certificate that is. I don't see where I posted that i wanted to sit with my firearms beside me. I was pointing out why the police want firearms locked up while the owner is in the house , and its nothing to do with them being stolen. People here can apply for a firearm for self defence depending on their circumstances. So telling my firearms department that I wanted a firearm for self defence would not be an issue, and it would not be much use if it wasn't within reach and loaded. Whether they felt that you needed one is a different matter, as they have got a lot stricter regards approving PPW/s. If you are in a gun club here you will see plenty loading their handguns before going home as they use them as a PPW. Edited November 20, 2014 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) No handguns are banned.so your safe. Of course the criminal coming to steal guns will have total respect for the firearms act...... Edited November 20, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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