Dangerous Brian Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Hi all After enquiring about steel proofing an a new 20 bore the other day I got a response that a lot of manufacturers don't see the need to proof 20 bores for HP steel as there are no excessive loads available. A quick look at the BASC guide to CIP regs followed by a quick trawl through cartridge websites revealed a distinct lack of any shells that conform to all parts of the regs. Does anyone know of a commercial Steel Game/ duck cartridge that is within CIP regs or have I got wrong/ outdated info? Most seem to mention that they adhere to CIP hardness limits unlike their competitors but then go off with shot sizes, velocities and momentums that exceed the data I have. Has anyone used steel (other than clay shells)in a 20 bore on here? Cheers Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 The contents are waking up - put the lid back on the can quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 You seem very worried for someone with the username dangerous Brian. Just buy a box of cartridges in number 3 or 4 shot , shoot them through your gun with any choke in , nothing will happen apart from the odd duck dying I would say . People get far too hung up about steel shot ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 20 gauge only available in 5 shot. That's an american #6. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 You can tell I only shoot 12 , but just cartridges list a 20 gauge 4 shot which of course could also be a 3.5 Either way there is still no need to panic over using steel on a modern gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 What happens if someone doesn't want to shoot with pressures somewhere between the working and proof pressure for his gun but would rather stay within the working pressure and use cartridges which fall within the CIP spec' which is, or should be, his right. With regard to the cartridges in question, the Gamebore and Hull offerings fall into the HP category on two counts - momentum and shot size - and Eley on one count - shot size. From their website, Express is anybody's guess. With regard to hardness, I asked a well known UK steel shot supplier a question which they didn't seem to want to answer. However, as their product meets both SAAMI and CIP spec's and the former is the softer and the CIP spec is "not harder than......", then I hazard a guess that only one hardness value is stocked as it will fall into both spec camps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Modern barrels are proofed at 1300 bars...and sold as 1050 bar! I very much doubt you can find shells that exceeds that. the only thing you need to take care of is to shot with an open choke otherwise you'll end up with nasty marks inside the barrel and most likely have to change it. Guns such as the Hatsan, Armsan or any new 20g will be proofed for steel and HP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Modern barrels are proofed at 1300 bars...and sold as 1050 bar! I very much doubt you can find shells that exceeds that. the only thing you need to take care of is to shot with an open choke otherwise you'll end up with nasty marks inside the barrel and most likely have to change it. Guns such as the Hatsan, Armsan or any new 20g will be proofed for steel and HP! Are you sure about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Modern barrels are proofed at 1300 bars...and sold as 1050 bar! I very much doubt you can find shells that exceeds that. Such barrels are "sold as" HP steel assuming of course they have the required mark to accompany the proof and service pressures quoted. The standard proof/service pressures for a 20 bore are 1080/830 respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 yes my lanber 20g is steel proof,i have 24g steel in no4 shot carts for it,but Remington do a 28g high performance steel load,but not many people about that have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I have a 20g Mossberg pump actiona nd anoyingly it doesnt list any max pressures / max loads for or if its able to take steel ! I have some RC 32gram 4`s but am concerned if they are safe to use, but having emailed Mossberg direct they have failed to respond to answer my questions on my 20g for steel and max pressure ! I will try the saddlery or what every they are called who import them and see what they say. Failing that I may ask someone who home loads and wildfowls if they would make a me some 20g steel up ! ATB Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 http://www.rc-cartridges.com/rc_steel_shot_cal.20_hp-70.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 The contents are waking up - put the lid back on the can quick. I am beginning to think that. Too late now! What happens if someone doesn't want to shoot with pressures somewhere between the working and proof pressure for his gun but would rather stay within the working pressure and use cartridges which fall within the CIP spec' which is, or should be, his right. With regard to the cartridges In question, the Gamebore and Hull offerings fall into the HP category on two counts - momentum and shot size - and Eley on one count - shot size. From their website, Express is anybody's guess. That's about as far as I got with it. It's all very well using these shells with standard proof. If something goes wrong; CIP, the gun manufacturer and the cartridge manufacturer won't want to know. Guns such as the Hatsan, Armsan or any new 20g will be proofed for steel and HP! That's not the case, hence why I asked the question. Most are but the one I want isn't (typical). Many thanks for the replies. Looks like a new plan might be needed. ATB Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Just buy a box of cartridges in number 3 or 4 shot , shoot them through your gun with any choke in , nothing will happen apart from the odd duck dying I would say . Unlikely much will die with the way I shoot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) I am beginning to think that. Too late now! That's about as far as I got with it. It's all very well using these shells with standard proof. If something goes wrong; CIP, the gun manufacturer and the cartridge manufacturer won't want to know. That's not the case, hence why I asked the question. Most are but the one I want isn't (typical). Many thanks for the replies. Looks like a new plan might be needed. ATB Brian It might just pay to make haste slowly. The LAG, after almost 5 years, are getting ready to submit their final report - they're not reporting to us so there'll be another delay (hopefully not another 5) before any decisions are announced. There's a good piece by *********** on www. positive shooting. com in which he briefly mentions that some changes to the CIP reg's regarding momentum and velocity might be forthcoming. Edit: Oops, I put his name but it's been deleted. No matter, the site is sufficient. Edited November 20, 2014 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.