One eye or two?

[ict_guy]

Thanks for all the feedback. I will try a few things next Sunday and see how I get on - lol re the 'both eyes closed' post. Don't think I'll be trying that though ;-)

[foosa]

I have this central vision thing that really bothered me as I was never sure what was the best solution and looked at all the usual fixes/tricks, day glo beads, glasses patches etc. I one day realised I was losing more targets because I was thinking about one eye, two eye, changing my target pick up point, different lens colours and everything else except just shooting the target! Now I wear one lens colour for clays, pick up the target wether clay or game with both eyes open, close one as I lock on to it and just shoot it! Takes a bit of getting used to but now it's second nature and the only thing I think about is locking on and shooting, simple! It's what I've used to gain many international, European and world team places and medals. What im getting at is one eye shooting although not ideal isn't that bad if you just accept it and mentally learn to shoot with it.

[ict_guy]

Thanks foosa, I went shooting yesterday and had a 1 hour lesson - the instructor gave the advice to start gun down (except in DTL) with both eyes open to track the clay, mount and close my left eye before the kill. I think this is the only thing that will ever work for me because, when I have both eyes open with the gun up, I see the left side of the barrel and double vision when lining up the target!! Going to do a couple of hours of shooting on Sunday and will aim to perfect this new strategy ;-)

[kiffy]

im right handed but due to being classed as blind in my right eye i have always shot left handed, i have tried several times to shoot both eyes open as i do have sight in my right eye but i cant do it... so ive given up and just close it

[foosa]

Thanks foosa, I went shooting yesterday and had a 1 hour lesson - the instructor gave the advice to start gun down (except in DTL) with both eyes open to track the clay, mount and close my left eye before the kill. I think this is the only thing that will ever work for me because, when I have both eyes open with the gun up, I see the left side of the barrel and double vision when lining up the target!! Going to do a couple of hours of shooting on Sunday and will aim to perfect this new strategy ;-)

I have the same issue off either shoulder/eye if keeping both eyes open, I see the side of the barrels, remember to really focus on the target as you close the other eye! If you find your checking the bead position or just not looking properly at the target as you close that other eye try this, when you first see the target as a solid object (not a streak or a blur) try and pick out a certain part of it you want to hit such as a leading edge of a clay or the beak or eye of a game target, I find this makes me really look at the target and not just be seeing it somewhere in my sight picture.

[NickB65]

For many years I closed my less dominant eye because I was told to...... But if you think about if as long as your dominant eye is on the same side as you shoot from then this should not be a problem. If your dominant eye is not on the same side then yes this is an issue which can be resolved easily but not with closing your eye! Blur the lens on your glasses slightly so the brain will ignore it - don't block it out completely just a slight blur.

 

Think a while, when you throw a ball to someone do you close one eye - a rugby player passing to another does not close one eye. You need both eyes open to better judge distance, speed and direction.

 

I now shoot both eyes open and no longer even think about how much lead I need. I just concentrate on the target with both eyes wide open and as long as the gun mount is true and I can see the target long enough to judge the speed, distance and direction of travel I hit most of what I shoot at. I don't hit all of them as I often miss judge direction of travel or speed and that is down to either a clever clay shoot designer or lack of concentration on my side.

 

Snap shooting where you get a fleeting moment to shoot is a lot harder but with both eyes open you will see more so be able to judge distance and travel much better.

[Suffolkngood]

Thanks for the input guys. Just been watching some YouTube videos and have put a piece of tape (vertically) in the middle of the left lens of my safety glasses. I put the gun up as I would for shooting, both eyes open and didn't have double vision at all. Had peripheral vision and think the right eye is now forced to dominate - will give this a try next Sunday and see how it goes.

Smearing the left lense of your shooting glasses with a ver light find of Vaseline will do the same thing. As you say it just forces your right eye to take over dominance.

[clayman]

There are no hard and fast rules, as very person is an individual, and what works for one shooter, is no help to another.

 

Also, the issue of eye dominance changes with lighting conditions, fatigue, direction and travel of the targets - and over a longer period, with age.

 

Gun fit and rib types also have an effect.

 

Eye dominance is not fixed. It can change with partial obstruction, - i.e. raising combs can lower or remove eye switching. Gun up / gun down can change things.

 

While not typically applied in shooting sports, other sports use eye training, as its possible to retrain the brain to use a weaker eye. The fibre optics should be used like this, not as an aiming bead in the focal vision, but as a "I'm using the correct eye" indicator in the lower periphery vision.

 

Different people have different abilities to provide "visual in-fill" - that's where the brain takes image form one eye and in-fills missing images on the other - typically creating "ghost images" - some people get these, others don't.

 

Bottom line is no amount of listening to opinion will make any difference, you have to see a competent coach and fully understand all the issues and solutions available.

 

Simple checks at the CLA by myself and Andy Kirkland working on the CPSA stand that year revealed that about 30% of all shooters had some level of undiagnosed eye problems, and a large portion of the eye problems came from a poor understanding of stance and mount. When the gun was correctly fitted, with the eye properly aligned looking DOWN on the rib and over the bead - a very large number of shooters who were head burier's, solved their left eye take over in an instant.

Edited January 5, 2015 by clayman

[Westward]

 

Also, the issue of eye dominance changes with lighting conditions, fatigue, direction and travel of the targets - and over a longer period, with age.

 

 

Eye dominance is not fixed. It can change with partial obstruction, - i.e. raising combs can lower or remove eye switching. Gun up / gun down can change things.

 

Eye dominance is neurological, just like handedness and it doesn't switch on and off or from side to side. The new(ish) science of neuroplasticity indicates that dominance could be changed but only over a lengthy period with a properly constructed training regime.

 

Many shooters who 'rifle' mount a shotgun or who fully pre-mount (or both) find the view from their dominant eye obstructed too much by the gun at the critical moment and on some targets they unwittingly switch most of their vision to the unobstructed non dominant eye.

 

It happens with other things too. Most people always use the same hand to open the car tailgate, but if they're carrying something awkward in the usual hand they simply switch to the other one without a thought. It's perfectly normal and it certainly doesn't mean they've temporarily changed their handedness.

 

You were correct in your last paragraph when you used the term 'left eye takeover' because that exactly describes it and also in pointing out that change of mount, gun or rib type can make it a non-problem.

 

Many eye dominance problems could be resolved by mounting the gun and addressing the target correctly.

[clayman]

Absolutely, we sing off the same hymn sheet.

 

Two votes for gun fit and eye position having significant effects on eye switching - an often overlooked aspect of dealing with eye dominance.

 

Raw eye tests with CD holes or finger pointing are not definitive as to the extent of the problem when a gun partially obstructs the view. Only mounted gun testing ( safe gun pre-checked) provides real info as to whether or not there is a problem. Many who test fully R.E.D. with the various static tests, will find there are actually problems with the gun in place - and those problems also need gun swing introduced. Just the dry mount held still can look OK, but do a full swing to both sides and back to mid-hold and suddenly there has been a push to side eye vision.

 

Often, a high comb cures this. While 3mm high for the pupil is considered ideal, being 5mm high hardly moves the pattern , less than 3" higher at 30yds, so having the eye well high of the rib to remove gun blotting can have significant positive results.

Edited January 6, 2015 by clayman

[oliver90owner]

For 66 years I have been very right handed but for 60+ years I have shot from my left shoulder in the normal left handed grip. Left eye has always been master. At the young age I remember I could not (easily) wink my left eye, so cork guns at the local fair were shot left handed (the first time I remember Dad trying to get me to shoot right handed).

 

I am not really sure if I am left or right handed when I dig - I dig with my left hand down the shaft, right hand in the D - that might be 'wrong' way round as I am very right footed as well!

 

Anyhow both eyes open using the shotgun, for me. I did know one fellow who shot very well but used his left hand for the trigger and shot off his right shoulder. He closed one eye. It must have prevented him from swinging the gun on his shoulder, hence his success.

 

As most have said, does it really matter?

 

RAB

Edited January 6, 2015 by oliver90owner

[Westward]

As most have said, does it really matter?

 

RAB

It matters to some.

 

Using an occluder such as tape or dots on the lens over the cross dominant eye works in the sense that it partially overcomes the problem and improves scores, but it doesn't really solve anything.

 

I can't think of any seriously good sporting clay shots who use an occluder.

[bruno22rf]

I was right eye dominant for over 30 years then lost the use of it-no option but to shoot left handed so thats what I did-you will be amazed at how quickly you become accustomed to it.

[ict_guy]

Too true!

 

Simple checks at the CLA by myself and Andy Kirkland working on the CPSA stand that year revealed that about 30% of all shooters had some level of undiagnosed eye problems, and a large portion of the eye problems came from a poor understanding of stance and mount. When the gun was correctly fitted, with the eye properly aligned looking DOWN on the rib and over the bead - a very large number of shooters who were head burier's, solved their left eye take over in an instant.

Well, I shot much better on Sunday. The fit is now so much better - 6mm higher on the comb and 1" extension on the stock. Closed my left eye just before the shot. For some clays (high tower overhead), I had both eyes open - amazing results!!

Edited January 6, 2015 by ict_guy

[bullet1747]

Shoot with both shut I would hit more , I seem to hit more with snap shots rather then tracking them through the air