Whitebridges Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 It's all so very intertwined isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Headless chickens with brown noses! I jacked basc when they sold us down the river over lead shot and ducks the first time. Oh look, I'm still shooting, well I never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Headless chickens with brown noses! I jacked basc when they sold us down the river over lead shot and ducks the first time. Oh look, I'm still shooting, well I never! but are you using lead for that intended purpose (re: ducks and lead)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Is it not time for truth and honesty? Is BASC involved at all now with the LAG? Is the website for LAG owned or administered by BASC or anyone or anything to do with BASC? Were BASC not in receipt of reports , views and the findings of John Swift , John Harradine and Alison Lorum and in doing so not identify that they possibly have opinions that could potentially undermine true scientific evidence as to the true potentially harmful effects or not of lead shot ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 but are you using lead for that intended purpose (re: ducks and lead)? I meant I am still shooting without any link to an organisation that spouts it is the voice of shooting in the UK.However in the context of your leading question, can I use lead on ducks in Scotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Is it not time for truth and honesty? Is BASC involved at all now with the LAG? Is the website for LAG owned or administered by BASC or anyone or anything to do with BASC? Were BASC not in receipt of reports , views and the findings of John Swift , John Harradine and Alison Lorum and in doing so not identify that they possibly have opinions that could potentially undermine true scientific evidence as to the true potentially harmful effects or not of lead shot ? Who is Alison Lorum, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Can anyone tell us the names of the key DEFRA people involved and who the DEFRA decision makers are ? If you don't want to put them on PW please can you message me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWAG Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Question have any of you sent an email to the chairman of the lead advisory group expressing your concern's as suggested by David. TWAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Question have any of you sent an email to the chairman of the lead advisory group expressing your concern's as suggested by David. TWAG I think Wymberley did, but received no reply. I'll give it a shot as I'm having no joy with the nationals; they all want me to subscribe which aint gonna happen. Edited to say have just emailed the chairman of the LAG via the link David supplied. Edited June 3, 2015 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I think Wymberley did, but received no reply. I'll give it a shot as I'm having no joy with the nationals; they all want me to subscribe which aint gonna happen. Edited to say have just emailed the chairman of the LAG via the link David supplied. I did, just before it all hit the fan and was possibly still all sweetness and light - totally innocuous and politely worded question akin to:- "Whereas I appreciate that a definitive date may not be possible, could I ask if you are to give an approximate forecast of when your findings will be completed and forwarded to Defra/FSA?" Now, if they can't be bothered to reply to a simple harmless question like that, what chance does anyone have of getting a response to something more forthright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Question have any of you sent an email to the chairman of the lead advisory group expressing your concern's as suggested by David. TWAG Good question. Another one is, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I did, just before it all hit the fan and was possibly still all sweetness and light - totally innocuous and politely worded question akin to:- "Whereas I appreciate that a definitive date may not be possible, could I ask if you are to give an approximate forecast of when your findings will be completed and forwarded to Defra/FSA?" Now, if they can't be bothered to reply to a simple harmless question like that, what chance does anyone have of getting a response to something more forthright? Mine goes along the lines of : Dear Shifty Swifty (only joking) As a concerned shooter I wondered how the recent resignations by several members of the LAG will effect the functioning of that body and the outcome of the final meeting and indeed how that meeting can now go ahead and submissions disclosed to DEFRA and the FSA in view of aforesaid resignations. Yours Scully Or something along those lines. Haven't included my avatar or the emoticon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive! Wymberley Dr Alison Loram worked under Dr John Harradine at BASC and was one of the co-authors of the Compliance Report. Someone might like to ask what happen to her? I’m told she was a Veggie and refused to shoot. Don’t know how true that is but came from inside BASC. Malkiserow The Defra staff will be list on the LAG minutes but they are only office staff, the head has to be the Minister Liz Truss. Twag If you send an email to the address given by Davidbasc this will end up in the desk of Dr Matt Ellis of BASC, as he is the secretariat for the LAG. With the resignations from the LAG from Barney White-Spunner of the CA , CLA GWCT , NGDA and GTA. BASC could not resign, as they are not a member of the LAG. The press release of BASC saying they had withdrawing their support, was misleading, as they still run the secretariat for the LAG and therefore the web site to. When will the web site report the resignations? Oh DavidBASC said I could contact the ‘info’ email address for the LAG and email the chairman BUT that email address is run by the administration of the LAG, which is BASC. When I spoke to John Swift last week at the DI meeting, I said that I had emailed my article lead shot-gate to him using the email address on the LAG web site, whcih the same as David gave us on PW. John Swift denied ever seeing it. Then I told him that he had replied by email telling me that the LAG was not taking any non-peer review papers. He replied “oh that would have been Harradine” Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive! Edited June 3, 2015 by gunsmoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Hi Scully Thanks for your email submitted via the NGO website. I agree with you that the credibility of LAG has been damaged by the recent resignations . Indeed, it could be said that the LAG process is over and that any further output from what is left of LAG can and should be ignored by Government and indeed everyone else. That is very much the message that the shooting organisations are conveying to Defra and the new Ministers at this time. The NGO was never part of LAG, of course. Our policy on lead ammunition can be read here:http://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/about-national-gamekeepers-organisation/policy/ngo-position-on-lead-shot Thanks for your interest and support of the NGO. Charles Nodder NGO Political Adviser Have just received this from the NGO. Edited June 3, 2015 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Will divers be banned from using lead shot? Might take up diving! Tell ya boys, get a flintlock quick, the future :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 It is totally false to say that emails sent to the Chair of LAG end up a PC at BASC. All emails to the Chair go to them and are not seen or intercepted by BASC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) posted by mistake. Edited June 3, 2015 by gunsmoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 The thot plickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmoke Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) I must have got this wrong. The Lead Ammunition Group web site was listed by the Code of Good Shooting Practice Ltd, company number 5612777 and their address just happens to be Marford Mill, is that not the same address as BASC? Edited June 3, 2015 by gunsmoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Gunsmoke ----->smoking gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 What on earth are you driving at? BASC did the admin for the LAG site, this information has been in the public domain for ages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 It is totally false to say that emails sent to the Chair of LAG end up a PC at BASC. All emails to the Chair go to them and are not seen or intercepted by BASC As the e-mail address I used does not specify an individual but the Group, surely it would be sensible to have incoming mail received by the secretariat for onward transmission as appropriate. That way incoming mail is always recorded. I know not where this office is for the Group. At least now I know why I didn't get an answer - Swift put it straight in the bin - along with how many others one wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 In fairness to BASC, the registration of a domain name has no bearing on what may be done with that website, if you looked for the registration details of my last business you would see Cable and Wireless details as the registrant, the website was managed by a 3rd party company in Sheffield and my business just updated content via a portal. It is wise not to leap to conclusions from a single bit of data. David, for the avoidance of doubt and to add a bit of enlightenment, can you advise on what the Admin role for the LAG entailed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 As far as i am aware: Creating the web site Uploading documents to the web site Sending meeting requests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 As far as i am aware: Creating the web site Uploading documents to the web site Sending meeting requests Thanks for the quick response. The answer is very little in practise and pretty much a clerical function only. Not the work of a nefarious political overseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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