Psyxologos Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 If not, you need to know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 I guess that depends on how you choose to look at it and which perspective you take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 I guess that depends on how you choose to look at it and which perspective you take. I agree. If you are a US corporaton is GREAT news. If, on the other hand you live in Europe and are European, you are snookered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Which seems to be the perspective of many who go with the extremely cynical outlook. Not saying you're wrong of course, just that it is a very polarised take on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted July 14, 2015 Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 Every day's a school day on PW, I had not heard of it before. Reading between the lines, and the scaremongering, it appears to be born from sensible and progressive ideas to improve trading between the US and EU - great, but it does appear to open up some strange and worrying possibilities. I'm all for improving our position and making strong links with the rest of the world but not to the detriment of our sovereignty or our levels of health, environment and food safety. That said, the deals haven't been struck yet so really we don't know the outcome let alone any future repercussions. Interesting to note that all parties (except the greens) largely support it - and that includes UKIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 The trans pacific partnership scheme seems to be motoring on now after having stalled a while. How that plays out will give us a great insight into how the US wishes to extend its trade partnerships globally and what agendas may be at play. Europe is a different beastie though and it will not be a walkover for the US. The recent move of European countries, led by Britain, to be major players in and supporting the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank is a clear message to the US that they are not the only game in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I think that the the most disturbing topic in the tenth round of negotiations is focused on new powers discussed mean that TTIP will grant US corporations the right to sue European governments for any policies causing future loss of profits, in a parallel judicial system available to them alone. I think this is a very important issue not many people are aware of. What it means is that if a US corporation feels that a European country threatens its future profits by, say developing a medication targetting a condition they currently have a treatment for, they can sue and, under these new powers, be awarded a lot of damages. It is a very disturbing idea. I was in Brussels in the European Commision on Monday and Tuesday, and I had access to a draft of the legislation. When I say it is scary, I mean it. It is still under negotiation and subject to secrecy, so I cannot really go into details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pothunter Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I was in Brussels in the European Commision on Monday and Tuesday, and I had access to a draft of the legislation. There is no draft legislation. There is an incredibly early stage pre-negotiating text. If there is ever a TTIP deal, it's unlikely to be agreed before 2019/20. Why are you (and millions of others) more worried about ISDS in the TTIP, an agreement which doesn't exist and in my (expert) view probably never will, than in the CETA, which does and is imminent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 As I understand there are already several ISDS agreements in place within the EU through trade arrangements with other countries. Equally private corporations founded in any of the EU host countries already have all the necessary rights to sue government if there is a perceived breach of obligation and things like that happen all the time. Did BAE not threaten to sue the government if it only went ahead with one of the new aircraft carriers? I also have a notion that Airbus have had a few legal bunfights with the EU too, but i could well be wrong. I don't think it is anything new, just simply that some activist groups have picked up on this issue in the TTIP talks and it has gone a bit viral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pothunter Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 All the above is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 FWIW? Have been trying to derail this through a pressure group I'm part of. Don't understand it all but the bits I do are not good for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I do not know. I admit, I was not very learned on the whole subject, and when I read the text I was taken aback. I found it incredibly one sided and potentially harmful to Europe. I thought it was something new, and with all the noises being made with regards to the TTIP, when I was offered to have a read I took the opportunity. Either way, old or new development, that is, I feel it is doing Europe no favours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pothunter Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I do not know. I admit, I was not very learned on the whole subject, and when I read the text I was taken aback. I found it incredibly one sided and potentially harmful to Europe. I thought it was something new, and with all the noises being made with regards to the TTIP, when I was offered to have a read I took the opportunity. Either way, old or new development, that is, I feel it is doing Europe no favours... Can you give us an example of a provision which was one-sided? It's kind of in the nature of trade agreements that unless they're mutually beneficial, they don't get signed. The EU is the world's premium market (twice the size of the U.S. and almost as rich per capita); why would we agree a voluntary trade deal unless it was in our interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 FWIW? Have been trying to derail this through a pressure group I'm part of. Don't understand it all but the bits I do are not good for us? Can i ask why you are part of a pressure group against something you have admitted you don't fully understand? Surely, until you read and understand it all and see everything in context you can't have a balanced view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I understood enough to know that it is most likely not of benefit to us, so decided that as we usually end up with things to our detriment I should try to prevent it? Far more complacency here than is good for us IMHO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pothunter Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I understood enough to know that it is most likely not of benefit to us, so decided that as we usually end up with things to our detriment I should try to prevent it? Far more complacency here than is good for us IMHO? As I said above, the EU is the world's premium market (twice the size of the U.S. and almost as rich per capita). So they need us at least as much if not more than we need them. So why would we agree a voluntary trade deal unless it was in our interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLondon Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 What with the TTIP and the ISDS,not to mention the CETA No wonder the FWIW are up in arms with the U.S and the EU. Straight over my humble head,I only wanna go shooting and have a bit of fun. JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 What with the TTIP and the ISDS,not to mention the CETA No wonder the FWIW are up in arms with the U.S and the EU. Straight over my humble head,I only wanna go shooting and have a bit of fun. JIM You're right, stick to shooting an LR or CF with a FMJ, or even a 12g SXS and concentrait on POI, MOA and POA, and let BASC and CA worry about politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 You're right, stick to shooting an LR or CF with a FMJ, or even a 12g SXS and concentrait on POI, MOA and POA, and let BASC and CA worry about politics. LOL. Made me chuckle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol p Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 It's a series of very dangerous trade negotiations that they want to use to keep you deaf and blind, sap your energy and incarcerate your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetree Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Every day's a school day on PW, I had not heard of it before. Reading between the lines, and the scaremongering, it appears to be born from sensible and progressive ideas to improve trading between the US and EU - great, but it does appear to open up some strange and worrying possibilities. I'm all for improving our position and making strong links with the rest of the world but not to the detriment of our sovereignty or our levels of health, environment and food safety. That said, the deals haven't been struck yet so really we don't know the outcome let alone any future repercussions. Interesting to note that all parties (except the greens) largely support it - and that includes UKIP. UKIP is against TTIP. We should all be against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 UKIP is against TTIP. We should all be against it.They oppose anything involving the EU but they don't seem to mind the proposals themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treetree Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 They oppose anything involving the EU but they don't seem to mind the proposals themselves. Their position is one of pragmatism and realism concerning any deal made by the EU; there is nothing we can do about it while we remain in the EU. The deal is being sketched out in secret right now. American firms will have the right to sue the British government (or the taxpayer) if policies get in the way of them making profit. The 'court' this will be heard in will be a secretive court, not held under the laws of any nation state. UKIP oppose the secrecy and the decisions made on our behalf by the EU commission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleFieldRelics Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ukip are against it. Here's how the parties voted. Green is those who voted AGAINST TTIP: http://action.globaljustice.org.uk/ea-campaign/action.retrievestaticpage.do?ea_static_page_id=4182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I do not know. I admit, I was not very learned on the whole subject, and when I read the text I was taken aback. I found it incredibly one sided and potentially harmful to Europe. I thought it was something new, and with all the noises being made with regards to the TTIP, when I was offered to have a read I took the opportunity. Either way, old or new development, that is, I feel it is doing Europe no favours... And giving Greece another Billion of our money in this failed EU experiment isn't? To be fair negotiation starts with a bigger ask then you actually will settle for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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