223 low power cartridges

[bullet dodger]

I want to use my local shooting range with my 223 but they have a stipulation of 2150 fps max. Are there any commercially available rounds that would help me out here ?

 

Cheers

 

Gaz

[neutron619]

I was going to suggest you looked at Lapua ammunition, but I just checked and they don't do a subsonic .223 round. The .308 version works very nicely for this kind of thing, so that's a shame really.

 

The only way you're going to achieve anything like this is by loading Trail Boss behind an appropriate bullet yourself. If you've got the kit and can get the powder, it's very easy - you can produce loads that make a .223 roughly equivalent to a .22 LR, through to full power loads if you know when to switch back to ordinary rifle powder, but otherwise you may struggle to get within your 2150fps limit. If you go this route, find the IMR paper about Trail Boss and read it carefully. You're probably looking for something in the region of 8gr of TB behind a 50gr bullet, but that isn't a recommendation for a load - please do the research yourself and work it up properly if you go that way.

Edited July 16, 2015 by neutron619

[Underdog]

Lots of powders will give that performance in the 223 case. Its all on the web.

[Livefast123]

Played around with subsonic .223 loads for a bit for use at my club.

 

You'll need to reload and I would recommend using a cast lead boolit from the likes of ShellHouse bullet company. If you go into the Hodgdons reloading centre on the net you'll find all sorts of recipes for 55gr low power target loads using Hodgdons titegroup, clays and imr trail boss.

 

I used to use 4.1gr Titegroup over a 55gr FMJ for real low power sub stuff.

 

They used to have a reduced load for Hodgdons H4895 using the 60% rule which from memory was 16gr over a 55gr FMJ. This produced just over 2000 fps out of my 20 inch Howa.

 

Those loads were safe in my gun but please check with a reloading manual before using in yours.

 

If you are close to Somerset I have some H4895 and titegroup you can try.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Livefast123

[fortune]

If you get into reloading then be VERY careful of which powder you use and how much powder. For low power loads you need a fast burning powder because you can get an event which is like a detonation rather than a burn and this can literally blow guns to pieces with catastrophic results which can be potentially life threatening. As previously written a lead bullet is best for this type of round. Some people use blue dot and I have heard about using a filler material to keep the powder back down near the primer to help keep the ignition of the small amount of powder consistent. If you do get involved in this kind of reloading make sure that you read up on it and know exactly what the danger points are and don’t experiment wit any old sort of powder. I dabbled with it for a while using 2400 but didn’t have a need for this type of ammo so I powered up to the top end.

[Underdog]

If you get into reloading then be VERY careful of which powder you use and how much powder. For low power loads you need a fast burning powder because you can get an event which is like a detonation rather than a burn and this can literally blow guns to pieces with catastrophic results which can be potentially life threatening. As previously written a lead bullet is best for this type of round. Some people use blue dot and I have heard about using a filler material to keep the powder back down near the primer to help keep the ignition of the small amount of powder consistent. If you do get involved in this kind of reloading make sure that you read up on it and know exactly what the danger points are and dont experiment wit any old sort of powder. I dabbled with it for a while using 2400 but didnt have a need for this type of ammo so I powered up to the top end.

The detonation scenario is a theory and not been proved as far as I am aware!

The theory stems from the use of tiny amounts of the fastest pistol powders made however of all the powders made of the quickest burn rates none of the manufacturers have been able to come across this situation, other wise they would stop selling it!

What can not be proven is if the reloader accidentally double dosed a case of the fastest powder, that WILL want to do damage! A recommended dose of these fast powders is unlikely going to have enough of itself to blow up anything no matter how it lights up in the case! 3,4,5 or six grains of near zero progression is a tiny amount of fuel. Double it by accident is a different story!

The 60% rule for rifle cases is best from medium burn for cartridge in hand and extruded powders.

Keep the cases primed, primer up in the tray prior to charging. Cuts down the risk of double dosing.

[Livefast123]

I started off my reloading career with subsonic .223 but had watched most of the videos on Youtube and annoyed the Mrs with my bedtime reading.

 

Using Titegroup is perfectly safe as long as you are thorough with your reloading procedure and is very economical with a tub being around £31 down here. However i would probably give Trail Boss a go if i was to do it all again as it fills the case.

 

I think most detonations are just double charges from when people arn't paying attention. I use 2 loading trays and move the cases from the empty side to the powder thrower to the loaded side. Seems to have work so far.

[phaedra1106]

SEE (Secondary Explosive Effect) isn't from using fast burning pistol powders, it's from using small amounts of slow-medium burning rifle powder in large cases.

 

Titegroup and Viht N310 are excellent powders for downloading sub-sonic rounds (especially using cast bullets) as they are positionally insensitive.

 

DO NOT use any sort of filler material in the case or open up the flash hole diameter.

 

I've posted an excellent article by E Harris on the use of reduced loads with cast bullets on here a couple of times before, please have a read of it before doing any loading.

 

Post 18 here,

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/288404-loading-under-the-powder-weight-recommendations/

[neutron619]

Lots of powders will give that performance in the 223 case. Its all on the web.

 

U - yes, certainly. Just trying to keep it simple, as TB gives good case fill and the alternatives don't, as others have observed above.

[Underdog]

SEE (Secondary Explosive Effect) isn't from using fast burning pistol powders, it's from using small amounts of slow-medium burning rifle powder in large cases.

 

Titegroup and Viht N310 are excellent powders for downloading sub-sonic rounds (especially using cast bullets) as they are positionally insensitive.

 

DO NOT use any sort of filler material in the case or open up the flash hole diameter.

 

I've posted an excellent article by E Harris on the use of reduced loads with cast bullets on here a couple of times before, please have a read of it before doing any loading.

 

Post 18 here,

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/288404-loading-under-the-powder-weight-recommendations/

Especially spherical. Hardly ever extruded. I did say earlier to use extruded.

[bullet dodger]

Many thanks for your responses. I dont shoot enough to warrant buying all the reloading gear, but the info given is very interesting. I may have a solution as another range has just built custom firing ranges for up to .308. Ready soon by all accounts.

 

Thanks again

 

Gaz

[Vince Green]

It makes me feel a bit uncomfortable to see people say they are shooting downloaded ammunition on ranges with restricted velocities. When, (after the handgun ban), we asked Warminster as it was then, if we could download our .303s to shoot on our range.

The answer came back that range licensing in the UK does not recognise downloading and all ammunition fired is regarded as being full velocity. A member of our club who was a right stirrer reported two other clubs for doing this and they got into all sorts of trouble.

 

This came back on us as he made the complaint in our name although he didn't do it with our knowledge

 

However, it disappoints me greatly to see this is going on in other clubs when we were so firmly told we could not do it

[neutron619]

Well, either way, what your post confirms is that the regulation, like the law, is an ***.

 

If the backstop is rated to 2150fps (plus, presumably, some safety margin) it shouldn't matter whether it's a down-loaded .223, a full power .357 magnum or a Ping-Pong ball that hits it.

[Underdog]

I nearly, ever so nearly bit!

[Livefast123]

Do you have any reference to that Vince, as there would be implications across the country?

Edited July 21, 2015 by Livefast123

[phaedra1106]

Vince, there is no problem with shooting "downloaded" ammunition. We use the NRA insurance for our club, they are fully aware that most of our members shoot military calibre (centrefire) ammunition that is loaded to produce muzzle velocities and energies that are within our 25m indoor range limits, it isn't a problem at all.

 

We recently had a similar situation where someone expressed concerns to Durham who then wrote to our members telling them that unless they were also a member of a full bore rifle club or used their rifles for stalking/hunting then they had to lodge them with an RFD. We challenged this and won.

Edited July 22, 2015 by phaedra1106

[Vince Green]

Do you have any reference to that Vince, as there would be implications across the country?

Not now it was fifteen years ago or more after the handgun ban, we were told our range was a pistol range (ie built to pistol range specifications) and although it no longer said that on the safety certificate, because it would be inappropriate, they regarded it as being licensed for pistol calibre gallery rifles only.

They also said, if I recall correctly, there was no specification in their manual for an indoor centrefire rifle range and no official recognition of reduced loads. This was the MOD at Warminster who issue the range safety certificates

 

But it doesn't matter anymore because we lost the range when the sports club was sold to developers a couple of years back.

 

Also, I understand Warminster are out of the picture now because they don't inspect civilian ranges any more

Edited July 22, 2015 by Vince Green