BBC Wonders of the World & Latest from RSPB

[Salopian]

Last night BBC showed an article about Condors in the USA.

As you are aware the anti-lead ammunition movement is founded in the USA.
Last night on BBC 1 they showed a programme about the Wonders of the World which included a piece about Condors in America.
This went on to openly blame shooting and hunters for the decline in Condors , because Condors scavenge from shot deer that are polluted with Lead and feed their
chicks with polluted meat which kills the chicks.
My question is " Why are these carcases left lying around? Surely a responsible hunter retrieves all shot carcases and takes away for butchering?
Is the issue with Hunter education, rather than Lead ammunition?

Then today I receive an email from the RSPB calling for a total ban on Lead shot and Lead Bullets.

RSPB advocate copper bullets for culling Deer and it is my experience that this has led to higher percentages of wounding and suffering before death and the necessity to use larger calibres than those usually recommended for various species.

Is it environmentally friendly and good for animal welfare / public relations to increase wounding rather than mortality?

[grrclark]

I saw the BBC show about the condors last night and thought the whole lead issue was absolute nonsense. Absolutely no basis to the premise that lead was the main contributor in the recent demise of the condors, apart from just proclaiming that as a fact.

 

I guess that the condors must be super unlucky in that the only meat they scavenge from a carcas happens to contain bits of fragmented lead bullet and they do that with such regularity that it builds up sufficient lead toxicity to kill them.

 

I daresay that other environmental toxins produced by industry or population centres, that other remains of animals that have expired through poisoning as part of vermin control, or livestock that have had been pumped full of steroids and antibiotics and then die in a field are never scavenged upon.

 

Neither was there any mention of the timing of the demise of the condors and seeing as lead bullets and shot deer have been around for a very long time then based on their assertion that lead poisoning is at fault I would expect to see a correlation in the data that links the two together.

[wymberley]

Saturday's Telegraph.

 

[wymberley]

Couldn't do it in one.

 

[Savhmr]

Good 'Ol "unbiased" BBC strikes again. It must be nice for the RSPB to have such an ally

 

It would be equally as good if the pro shooting organisations wrote to the BBC to complain and submit a request for the facts or to force a publication of a withdrawal of the spurious allegations which were clearly aimed at adding weight to the RSPB campaign to ban all lead shot and bullets. The BBC is a disgrace and at the mercy of corrupted producers and programme makers.

[Livefast123]

The BBC Is a national joke, the sooner they get the licence fee taken off them the better. I would like to see the facts from all of the post-mortems carried out on the Condors proving they died of specifically hunters lead.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Livefast123

[LeadWasp]

"My question is " Why are these carcases left lying around? Surely a responsible hunter retrieves all shot carcases and takes away for butchering?"

 

It's all the 1000yd deer 'stalking'. Bambi hoofs off into cover and the 'stalker' can't even remember where it was standing let alone find it ;-)

[Scully]

 

 

It's all the 1000yd deer 'stalking'. Bambi hoofs off into cover and the 'stalker' can't even remember where it was standing let alone find it ;-)

You could well be right; a mate recently linked to me footage of long range elk and deer hunting in N. America. Some shooters are sniping at animals at extreme ranges across gullies and valleys over which they have no intention of recovering them and appear to be shooting the animals simply to 'see' if they can hit it.

They shoot goats in N.Zealand which aren't recovered simply because they're pest species, but I have heard no news of these carcasses posing any threats to indigenous raptors.

[fenboy]

"My question is " Why are these carcases left lying around? Surely a responsible hunter retrieves all shot carcases and takes away for butchering?"

 

It's all the 1000yd deer 'stalking'. Bambi hoofs off into cover and the 'stalker' can't even remember where it was standing let alone find it ;-)

 

I watched a programme on wildlife crime in America a month or two ago , they have major problems with drive by shooting on deer , people drive out of the citys and open up on the deer with semi automatics guns , they just leave the deer where they drop.

 

The police were removing the bullets from the dead deer to try and link the shooting to to the guns / people that do it.

 

I very much doubt that is the reason for a decline in condors though !

[LeadWasp]

Tell Your 'friend' on LongRangeDeerVarminting Facebook forum

Ha Ha I did......he deleted the whole thread after some choice words from me about ego's, Walt's, inappropriate use and unnecessary suffering (Wild Mammals Act).

[LeadWasp]

Couldn't do it in one.

 

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So we have in it hard copy - the RSPB supports large calibre shooting in the UK heh heh!

[wymberley]

Just been made aware of this and one just has to ask where have we heard something similar in the UK - have only provided the link as it's a bit long winded to copy in total.

 

http://www.huntfortruth.org/myths/

[Livefast123]

Sounds familiar.......

[ayrshiretaxidermy]

I saw the BBC show about the condors last night and thought the whole lead issue was absolute nonsense. Absolutely no basis to the premise that lead was the main contributor in the recent demise of the condors, apart from just proclaiming that as a fact.

 

I guess that the condors must be super unlucky in that the only meat they scavenge from a carcas happens to contain bits of fragmented lead bullet and they do that with such regularity that it builds up sufficient lead toxicity to kill them.

 

I daresay that other environmental toxins produced by industry or population centres, that other remains of animals that have expired through poisoning as part of vermin control, or livestock that have had been pumped full of steroids and antibiotics and then die in a field are never scavenged upon.

 

Neither was there any mention of the timing of the demise of the condors and seeing as lead bullets and shot deer have been around for a very long time then based on their assertion that lead poisoning is at fault I would expect to see a correlation in the data that links the two together.

1 or 2 pieces of ingested lead shot will kill a bird within 2 days. Edited August 12, 2015 by ayrshiretaxidermy

[David BASC]

Do you have a copy of the email from the RSPB?

[kent]

The angle we need to take about copper over lead is safety, ricochets of non toxic deer bullets have created an increase in what is actually a very uncommon accident (a hunting accident through ricochet)

I looked at a deer cull for the rspb it was a nightmare from a health and safety point of view. Full 24 hr public access lots of standing water non toxic bullets and carcasses all had to be removed as culled one at a time

I don't buy the condor deaths through deer carcases if it happened it's far more likely to have been from non edible varmint shooting

Still its classic propaganda in action, next it will be carrot farmers telling us night vision is not ever required for foxing