motty Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 anser2, So we have been converted to thinking like Americans.They are famed for sowing seeds and letting the rest follow.Then they disappear. Steel is going to ruin/has ruined the UK gun market. 'Fowlers seem content to go with the flow and update to steel proofed guns. All the artisan guns that shoot a proper lead loads become wall pieces won't they? Is there not some difference between a modern 3.5 inch steel shooting machine made in Turkey to an English made work of art made 10 or 8 bore? You 'fowlers should also look at the young blood going through your books. How many wildfowling clubs have thriving memberships? There are some nice looking modern wildfowling guns in o/u or s/s flavour. I don't understand what you mean by saying that steel has ruined the UK gun market. What has your last question got to do with cartridges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whitebridges wildfowlers are not going with the flow. We are simply obeying the law. No point us banging on about the loss of lead. It is no longer an option for us. I want a gun that can do what I require it to do and do it reliably. I don't care if it's a work of art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) anser2, So we have been converted to thinking like Americans.They are famed for sowing seeds and letting the rest follow.Then they disappear. Steel is going to ruin/has ruined the UK gun market. 'Fowlers seem content to go with the flow and update to steel proofed guns. All the artisan guns that shoot a proper lead loads become wall pieces won't they? Is there not some difference between a modern 3.5 inch steel shooting machine made in Turkey to an English made work of art made 10 or 8 bore? You 'fowlers should also look at the young blood going through your books. How many wildfowling clubs have thriving memberships? Even a " English work of art 10 or 8" can shoot steel , in fact Muncher on here has brought a English 8 to do just that with . I am afraid times move on and we all need to move with them , yes lots of old guns will be left behind but then they always have , not many of us are using flintlocks now are we . I do not really see where all the sentiment comes from , should we not feel the same about good old English cars ? do not see too many riding around in them , they have moved with the times , and the same could be said about numerous other things I am not going to suggest that I would not rather be using lead because I would but the fact is I cannot without breaking the law Edited August 23, 2015 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 There are some nice looking modern wildfowling guns in o/u or s/s flavour. I don't understand what you mean by saying that steel has ruined the UK gun market. What has your last question got to do with cartridges? Hello motty, you know those old beautiful English Tolley guns and the like. Nothing actually. You know what posting is like on here, sporting, good fun and anything goes. So what's the answer then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whitebridges wildfowlers are not going with the flow. We are simply obeying the law. No point us banging on about the loss of lead. It is no longer an option for us. I want a gun that can do what I require it to do and do it reliably. I don't care if it's a work of art. So why don't you lot learn a trick then? The Scots didn't role over, cave in and die. Get the "rules" looked at and reform them. We don't need steel shot period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Three and a hslf inch shells are mainly to placate the purchaser who thinkd in load weight not pellet count and speed Remember 28 grm of steel is way more pellets than 28 grm of lead in equal shot size (shot size beimg the other non equal factor) Enough pattetn is enough 3.5" shells are mainly for shooting geese when they are too high to see their eyes , either because they are too high or its dark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 So why don't you lot learn a trick then? The Scots didn't role over, cave in and die. Get the "rules" looked at and reform them. We don't need steel shot period. What do you mean by 'you lot'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 anser2, So we have been converted to thinking like Americans.They are famed for sowing seeds and letting the rest follow.Then they disappear. Steel is going to ruin/has ruined the UK gun market. 'Fowlers seem content to go with the flow and update to steel proofed guns. All the artisan guns that shoot a proper lead loads become wall pieces won't they? Is there not some difference between a modern 3.5 inch steel shooting machine made in Turkey to an English made work of art made 10 or 8 bore? You 'fowlers should also look at the young blood going through your books. How many wildfowling clubs have thriving memberships? In the north west you might have to wait a decade or more to join some clubs some if your over 20 it's too late for you as you likely won't live long enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whitebridges, you do realise that non-toxic shot must be used on the foreshore in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whitebridges , American steel and lead loads are both getting increasingly hard to get. While Winchester and Remmies are both very good steel loads they are more expensive than English steel loads and when coupled with increasing transport costs and exchange rates of £-$ cant compete with Gamebore 3.5 loads. As for the reason to use 3.5 inch steel loads , simple to get the best from steel for extreme range shots you need larger pellets and then the patten declines. The answer is to up the pellet load , you then have a good balanced load with enough pellets for large shot ( ir BBB for geese and no 2 for high mallard ) to kill at similar ranges to the old Eley magnum lead loads when used with the right afterchoke. 3.5 shells are not for every day use , but ideal for foreshore pink feet or places when you know that the odds are that any chances you get at mallard are going to be around 50 yards up. They may not be needed for flight pond shooting , but are a clear advantage for the coastal shooter. Nobody ever poured scorn on the use of 10 or 8 bores for long range shooting so why should there ever be any problem using a 3.5 inch 12 bore. Honestly those who think you get real tangible range advantages with another 1/2" need to spend time on patterning on different loads The extra recoil and cost are certainly there but the range advantage is more in the mind and too small to call on in the field from the tests I have done Velocity is the main range limiter on steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 So why don't you lot learn a trick then? The Scots didn't role over, cave in and die. Get the "rules" looked at and reform them. We don't need steel shot period. The Scots did not have to. Unfortunately when our Government enforce new laws on us we have to obey them , what did you do when they said you had to pay council tax did you roll over or did you do some prison time on principal ? With respect what did you do when steel shot was enforced on wildfowlers ,did you scream , shout and protest about it or did you think I am ok jack I don't wildfowl , not a dig at you but a serious question , I am betting 90% of shooters did not give a stuff when the law was put in place because it did not affect them , but now it is getting closer to affecting them personally they are screaming from the roof tops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Honestly those who think you get real tangible range advantages with another 1/2" need to spend time on patterning on different loads The extra recoil and cost are certainly there but the range advantage is more in the mind and too small to call on in the field from the tests I have done Velocity is the main range limiter on steel Kent , if you will only as you say shoot geese on which you can see the eyes of how can you possibly know what range advantage a 3.5" gives ! Fact is for longer range geese I want to be throwing as big a payload of large shot at them as I can , that means 42 grams of steel in a 3.5 " case when using steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Even a " English work of art 10 or 8" can shoot steel , in fact Muncher on here has brought a English 8 to do just that with . I am afraid times move on and we all need to move with them , yes lots of old guns will be left behind but then they always have , not many of us are using flintlocks now are we . I do not really see where all the sentiment comes from , should we not feel the same about good old English cars ? do not see too many riding around in them , they have moved with the times , and the same could be said about numerous other things I am not going to suggest that I would not rather be using lead because I would but the fact is I cannot without breaking the law I am well aware of that. It'll soon be sleeved and ripped up and consigned to the bin soon. Modern man seems to like moving on and doesn't listen to the voice of reason and common sense. Neither will he take a difficult situation on and change it for the better. You are point in question. Take a move and change this stupid law. Wildfowlers make bad press as far as steel shot is concerned. You all like the stuff which is bizarre. You don't realise it but you are supporting getting lead banned in game and rough shooting factions, Then after the lead ban comes in all we will be allowed to shoot through our rifles is tin and some other "heath and safety" round. Collective thinking please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I am well aware of that. It'll soon be sleeved and ripped up and consigned to the bin soon. Modern man seems to like moving on and doesn't listen to the voice of reason and common sense. Neither will he take a difficult situation on and change it for the better. You are point in question. Take a move and change this stupid law. Wildfowlers make bad press as far as steel shot is concerned. You all like the stuff which is bizarre. You don't realise it but you are supporting getting lead banned in game and rough shooting factions, Then after the lead ban comes in all we will be allowed to shoot through our rifles is tin and some other "heath and safety" round. Collective thinking please. What will be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I think you will find it is those irresponsible shooters that insist on still shooting wildfowl with lead that is giving bad press and bringing closer the ban on lead . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawntredder Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Littlerob only wanted a recommendation for 31/2" loads and its turned into a circus about patterning,velocity&all kinds the lad probs couldn't give a .... about any of that like most fowlers don't!...buy some 31/2" mammoths fella and go enjoy your wildfowling ;-) Pathetic!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whitebridges get your head out of the sand. Lead posions wildfowl , there are dozens of research papers that prove it , just read them or do your own experiments with captive ducks if you do not beleve it. Used properly steel does as good of job of cleanly killing ducks as lead and steel in its various forms now my prefered shot. One of the reasons we use 3.5 inch shells is to insure that the steel shell does its job at the ranges wildfowling so often requires. I have no interest in vintage guns , I want a gun that does the job I require. What I am interested is in not posioning wildfowl and waders as a bi product of my shooting. The quarry is for me far more important than any gun. Its 2015 and we need to reconise the world has moved on , lead is bad in the environment and to continue to press for the use of a posionious metal gives ammunition to the very people who wish to stop our sport. As for the Americans , they have a long tradition of wildfowling and have developed the sport to a much higher level than fowlers this side of the pond. We are catching up , but their fowling gear is the envy of most British fowlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted August 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Littlerob only wanted a recommendation for 31/2" loads and its turned into a circus about patterning,velocity&all kinds the lad probs couldn't give a .... about any of that like most fowlers don't!...buy some 31/2" mammoths and go enjoy your wildfowling ;-) Pathetic!!!! totaly true only wanted to know what people recomened if I was going to reload my own cartridges I would try and get brass or stainless shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry P Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Your full of opinions on what us fowlers should do whitebridges. Well I'm happy for you to advise me on how we should get the government to change the law. You ignore the questions put you about what over forms of shooter and yourself have done. You just rant about us fowlers yet offer nothing positive. Do you just break any law you don't agree with in life. Oh and as for the Scottish not rolling over I have to use a non toxic load on the foreshore there just as I do in Wales. I don't need lead for my chosen sport but I would fight for the right of game shooting etc to continue yo do so. I don't fox hunt but went on the March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 Kent , if you will only as you say shoot geese on which you can see the eyes of how can you possibly know what range advantage a 3.5" gives ! Fact is for longer range geese I want to be throwing as big a payload of large shot at them as I can , that means 42 grams of steel in a 3.5 " case when using steel. Because nobody ranges geese and some have to post pictures of shot ducks with badly broken necks of it patterns it patterns if it's the same speed and shot size killing has to be equal Range should be judged by percentage clean kills not broken wings. I have had my share of broken wings and chasing down wounders over quite a few more seasons than some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I would say most people range geese , they decide are they in range or are they not in range and if they are or not can and will have a bearing on what you have up the spout . Broken wings and wounded birds will in most cases will reflect a poor shot just as easily as it will something being out of range , thanks for pointing out my duck with a broken neck picture , It was one of two fowl that I have not killed cleanly since I started wildfowling though in the case of that particular duck it needed no chasing down as it was completely incapacitated and seconds from death before I did the deed no doubt it will not be the last . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 23, 2015 Report Share Posted August 23, 2015 I would say most people range geese , they decide are they in range or are they not in range and if they are or not can and will have a bearing on what you have up the spout . Broken wings and wounded birds will in most cases will reflect a poor shot just as easily as it will something being out of range , thanks for pointing out my duck with a broken neck picture , It was one of two fowl that I have not killed cleanly since I started wildfowling though in the case of that particular duck it needed no chasing down as it was completely incapacitated and seconds from death before I did the deed no doubt it will not be the last . Wait till you have been at it a while then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Buy some shells to test. Don't get hung up on chamber length. A decent shell could be in any size 70 to 89mm. My recommendation is 36g or 32g in 2.75-3" in a steel#2 for duck. Then 36g+ in bb. At 1400fps. Those shotsizes are very good. Steel. Make of it what you will. But these configuration are not ineffective. Try some brands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Buy some shells to test. Don't get hung up on chamber length. A decent shell could be in any size 70 to 89mm. My recommendation is 36g or 32g in 2.75-3" in a steel#2 for duck. Then 36g+ in bb. At 1400fps. Those shotsizes are very good. Steel. Make of it what you will. But these configuration are not ineffective. Try some brands. Good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hi Just my thoughts But some 3.1/2 try them Save the cases if your going to relode if you don't like the 3.1/2 loads you can cut the cases back to 3 inch with a lighter load that you can also buy to try personally like the 3.1/2 inch perhaps overkill gives me a bit more confidence on the geese All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.