Dirty cartridges

[bostonmick]

I have recently tried hull pro piston and whilst I think they are a very good killing cartridge I have found them to be the worst I have ever used for plastic fouling.used them in a dt10.687ell,a400 and a winchester sxs. A friend also used them and had the same problem.Has anyone else used these and how did you find them.

[deershooter]

Pro piston shells have no wad fingers only 25 % of the shot is in any type of cup ,most lead is exposed to the barrel walls .Being a plastic wad it doesn't have the scrubbing action of a fibre wad ,thus the dirty barrels .I have to put wire wool on an old phosphor bronze brush and use a battery drill to remove lead fouling on my 687

 

Deershooter

[bostonmick]

Pro piston shells have no wad fingers only 25 % of the shot is in any type of cup ,most lead is exposed to the barrel walls .Being a plastic wad it doesn't have the scrubbing action of a fibre wad ,thus the dirty barrels .I have to put wire wool on an old phosphor bronze brush and use a battery drill to remove lead fouling on my 687

 

Deershooter

Iunderstand what your saying.however I have used many fibre cartridges of different makes and none have been as dirty or take so long to clean.i won't be buying anymore.

[Hamster]

If it really worries you then fire a few normal plastic shells before going home, they invariably put the barrels back to what you see as visually cleaner. Personally wouldn't bother me as I don't clean the barrels anyway unless they get wet and so long as these shells contents aren't corrosive then no harm will be done.

[bostonmick]

If it really worries you then fire a few normal plastic shells before going home, they invariably put the barrels back to what you see as visually cleaner. Personally wouldn't bother me as I don't clean the barrels anyway unless they get wet and so long as these shells contents aren't corrosive then no harm will be done.

The last trip out I put 25 of the hull through then 75 eley plastics and thought that would indeed do as you say but unfortunately it made no difference. As I say I won't be using again

[GingerCat]

We're they cold ie stored in a cold place? Noticeable difference (at least in my world) to how dirty cold carts are in winter compared to warm one from the airing cupboard or in summer.

[Hamster]

We're they cold ie stored in a cold place? Noticeable difference (at least in my world) to how dirty cold carts are in winter compared to warm one from the airing cupboard or in summer.

 

My thoughts too, it does sound as though both were a tad on the cold side because normally a clean burning shell tends to wipe away the worst of a messy one.

[bostonmick]

Al my cartridges are stored in the house and are in warm dry conditions. I use other hull cartridges without any problem.sovereign and parlours.as I said they are very good killing carts.

[figgy]

I can't understand why people get bothered by a cartridge being dirtier than others. Plastic fouling will happen to what degree it don't matter. It will only build up to a certain level and becomes self cleaning to that level. Same with lead fouling and fibre wads.

 

If you have chrome lined barrels just clean as normal and put away. It won't hurt your gun.

 

If you want to reduce the amount a box of fibre wads is good at getting rid of it.

[OffAim]

Try a few old Baikals through your guns...........2-'0" of concrete like soot in the bores...............a report as loud as a Mills grenade...................and a flame about 3'-00" long on a roost shoot...............

 

They launch the lifeboats for them.

[Count Zero]

I have just swapped from shooting CompX to ProPiston. I like the patterning and consistency of the ProPiston, but was a bit concerned about the amount of cleaning my gun required afterwards. I am a skeet shooter so my guns see a fair few cartridges through them and I always clean my guns after using them.

 

I am using a Beretta 692 and the back bored barrels on these guns seem to make them more difficult to clean using a traditional phosphor bronze brush.

 

I think most cartridges will produce some sort of fouling. In my experience, the CompX produce plastic fouling - there is a deep shot cup on the plastic wad which means that the shot goes up the barrels and out of the chokes while still in the plastic wad. As a result, the plastic fouling is throughout the barrels and even into the chokes. ProPiston, on the other hand, has a shallow cup and most of the lead shot is in contact with the barrels while travelling up the barrels. As a result, most of the fouling from ProPiston appears to be lead fouling with some carbon deposits. In my guns, it seems to be worst around the forcing cones.

 

I have found the best method of cleaning is to use a bit of solvent (I am using Mannol Brake Cleaner) with a tornado phospor bronze brush (you can find them on eBay). Normal phospor bronze brushes just didn't seem to have much impact and I was struggling to get the barrels clean. Using the tornado brush, I can usually get the barrels clean in 5-10 minutes. Most recently, I have been using the drill version of the Magic Bore and that seems to be even more effective, but it is still early days with this.

 

Hope this helps.

[Hamster]

I have just swapped from shooting CompX to ProPiston. I like the patterning and consistency of the ProPiston, but was a bit concerned about the amount of cleaning my gun required afterwards. I am a skeet shooter so my guns see a fair few cartridges through them and I always clean my guns after using them.

 

I am using a Beretta 692 and the back bored barrels on these guns seem to make them more difficult to clean using a traditional phosphor bronze brush.

 

I think most cartridges will produce some sort of fouling. In my experience, the CompX produce plastic fouling - there is a deep shot cup on the plastic wad which means that the shot goes up the barrels and out of the chokes while still in the plastic wad. As a result, the plastic fouling is throughout the barrels and even into the chokes. ProPiston, on the other hand, has a shallow cup and most of the lead shot is in contact with the barrels while travelling up the barrels. As a result, most of the fouling from ProPiston appears to be lead fouling with some carbon deposits. In my guns, it seems to be worst around the forcing cones.

 

I have found the best method of cleaning is to use a bit of solvent (I am using Mannol Brake Cleaner) with a tornado phospor bronze brush (you can find them on eBay). Normal phospor bronze brushes just didn't seem to have much impact and I was struggling to get the barrels clean. Using the tornado brush, I can usually get the barrels clean in 5-10 minutes. Most recently, I have been using the drill version of the Magic Bore and that seems to be even more effective, but it is still early days with this.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Does the level of cleanness you achieve in a given sitting have any impact on how many shots it subsequently takes before the barrels are dirty again and have you noticed any ballistic advantages ?

[Count Zero]

Good question.

My guns (two identical Beretta 692's) are serviced every year. I always pull a bore snake through them after use and about once a month use a set of brushes on them. I thought they were reasonably clean. However, when they were returned from their last service, the gunsmith estimated there was a layer of plastic about 10/1000th inch thick throughout the barrels. At that time, I was using CompX all the time and both guns would probably have seen around 10,000 rounds through them. I was a bit surprised given that they had been cleaned (albeit by me) every time they had been used.

With the change to ProPiston, I have changed by cleaning regime and get the gun barrels back to spotless every time - no streaking, just shiney chrome. I can say that they are probably as clean now as they were when I first got them back from the gunsmith.

Do I notice any changes ballistically? No. Not really. The gunsmith reckoned that the constriction caused by the plastic fouling would have affected the shot pattern, but I can't honestly say that as a shooter I noticed.

So why bother cleaning them? Given that it only takes me 5-10 minutes to get them back to clean, why wouldn't I? For me, it is about consistency - I use the same cartridges, same skeet vest, same gun etc. Making sure that my guns are clean is just controlling one more variable. It might not affect the ballistic performance of the gun, but why take the chance that it does when it takes little effort to remove this as a variable.

I guess everyone has a different cleaning regime. It is just about finding something that works for you.

[B25Modelman]

 

Good question.

My guns (two identical Beretta 692's) are serviced every year. I always pull a bore snake through them after use and about once a month use a set of brushes on them. I thought they were reasonably clean. However, when they were returned from their last service, the gunsmith estimated there was a layer of plastic about 10/1000th inch thick throughout the barrels. At that time, I was using CompX all the time and both guns would probably have seen around 10,000 rounds through them. I was a bit surprised given that they had been cleaned (albeit by me) every time they had been used.

With the change to ProPiston, I have changed by cleaning regime and get the gun barrels back to spotless every time - no streaking, just shiney chrome. I can say that they are probably as clean now as they were when I first got them back from the gunsmith.

Do I notice any changes ballistically? No. Not really. The gunsmith reckoned that the constriction caused by the plastic fouling would have affected the shot pattern, but I can't honestly say that as a shooter I noticed.

So why bother cleaning them? Given that it only takes me 5-10 minutes to get them back to clean, why wouldn't I? For me, it is about consistency - I use the same cartridges, same skeet vest, same gun etc. Making sure that my guns are clean is just controlling one more variable. It might not affect the ballistic performance of the gun, but why take the chance that it does when it takes little effort to remove this as a variable.

I guess everyone has a different cleaning regime. It is just about finding something that works for you.

 

Polyethylene (plastic wads) melts at 110 C (I have moulded it) so after a number of shots in close succession they are melting and adhering to the bores.

[Hamster]

 

Good question.

My guns (two identical Beretta 692's) are serviced every year. I always pull a bore snake through them after use and about once a month use a set of brushes on them. I thought they were reasonably clean. However, when they were returned from their last service, the gunsmith estimated there was a layer of plastic about 10/1000th inch thick throughout the barrels. At that time, I was using CompX all the time and both guns would probably have seen around 10,000 rounds through them. I was a bit surprised given that they had been cleaned (albeit by me) every time they had been used.

With the change to ProPiston, I have changed by cleaning regime and get the gun barrels back to spotless every time - no streaking, just shiney chrome. I can say that they are probably as clean now as they were when I first got them back from the gunsmith.

Do I notice any changes ballistically? No. Not really. The gunsmith reckoned that the constriction caused by the plastic fouling would have affected the shot pattern, but I can't honestly say that as a shooter I noticed.

So why bother cleaning them? Given that it only takes me 5-10 minutes to get them back to clean, why wouldn't I? For me, it is about consistency - I use the same cartridges, same skeet vest, same gun etc. Making sure that my guns are clean is just controlling one more variable. It might not affect the ballistic performance of the gun, but why take the chance that it does when it takes little effort to remove this as a variable.

I guess everyone has a different cleaning regime. It is just about finding something that works for you.

 

 

He could technically be correct but I'd put money on it being irrelevant if not undetectable by 99.999% of us. Years ago I recall reading about some American skeet expert who believed he began to see a difference in the manner of his breaks after prolonged use of his multi chokes without cleaning, he went on to suggest that all went back to normal once plastic fouling had been removed from said chokes. Not being that fastidious (and believe me few are as interested in the subject as I) I cannot call BS because I am of the belief that one has to listen to those with extensive experience in a defined and narrow field.

 

Having said this I simply do not believe that cleaning has an impact in either pattern qualities or indeed even re-sale values of guns so long as ones cleaning regime does not constitute abuse. It doesn't matter how clean you get the barrels on a gun (particularly chromed ones) a few shots on subsequent trips will put things back to before. In other words your barrels are dirty when you walk from stand to stand.

 

I also do not believe that even if we were to accept the arbitrary figure of 10/1000th of an inch plastic coating on the entire length of the barrels, that that in itself means anything at all. Whether you are shooting with freshly cleaned barrels or not any ballistic contrast is nearsadammit irrelevant and extremely unlikely to fall anywhere lower than no. 25 in a list of possible causes of a miss.

 

My main comp gun 682E which I'd owned since about 2000 was never ever cleaned any more vigorously than a 10 gauge bronze brush manually in the chambers and toilet paper shoved in and out to remove the obligatory oil sprayed therein. It also received due drops of oil here and there particularly when wet, it was never abused but also only cleaned roughly once every 1k shots. It looked and shot almost like a new gun when sold for very nearly what it cost me new, obviously I'm aware in real terms it cost a few hundred to own but hey.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

 

Good question.

My guns (two identical Beretta 692's) are serviced every year. I always pull a bore snake through them after use and about once a month use a set of brushes on them. I thought they were reasonably clean. However, when they were returned from their last service, the gunsmith estimated there was a layer of plastic about 10/1000th inch thick throughout the barrels. At that time, I was using CompX all the time and both guns would probably have seen around 10,000 rounds through them. I was a bit surprised given that they had been cleaned (albeit by me) every time they had been used.

With the change to ProPiston, I have changed by cleaning regime and get the gun barrels back to spotless every time - no streaking, just shiney chrome. I can say that they are probably as clean now as they were when I first got them back from the gunsmith.

Do I notice any changes ballistically? No. Not really. The gunsmith reckoned that the constriction caused by the plastic fouling would have affected the shot pattern, but I can't honestly say that as a shooter I noticed.

So why bother cleaning them? Given that it only takes me 5-10 minutes to get them back to clean, why wouldn't I? For me, it is about consistency - I use the same cartridges, same skeet vest, same gun etc. Making sure that my guns are clean is just controlling one more variable. It might not affect the ballistic performance of the gun, but why take the chance that it does when it takes little effort to remove this as a variable.

I guess everyone has a different cleaning regime. It is just about finding something that works for you.

 

 

How far will you take your cleaning regime?

 

Would you clean after each round of skeet?

 

I get the impression that you would clean after a Saturday shoot even if you were planning to shoot on the Sunday.

 

I put an oiled brush through my barrels after each shoot, I place the guns muzzle downwards in the cabinet and then use them next time.

 

I have rolls of the old 4" X 2" unused, the first shot of the next outing takes the majority of the crud with it.