Decomissioning a SG

[Lord Geordie]

How does one go about the decomissioning of a Shotgun?

 

Reason i ask is i just received a Ward & sons rotary underlever round action side by side hammer gun with damascus barrels from my Uncle!

 

To be honest there is pitting in the barrels etc and it's never gonna be in proof unless i get it resleeved. (huge expense) It's no use to me but it has sentimental value to my Dad but not being a SGC holder I can only give it to him if it has been decomissioned and has a cert I beleive!

 

 

Can i decomission it myself or must it go away to a gunsmith etc??

 

Thanks for any help

 

LG

[LEFTY478]

I believe that you will need a Decommission Certificate, from a Proof House, to satisfy Ol' Bill. A local RFD should be able to confirm this, though.

[ph5172]

as far as i recall anything decommisioned or 'de-activated after 1979 has to have a certificate of de-activation stating that it can no longer be used or converted to use projectiles.

Merley werlding a solid tube and removing / filing down the pins is no longer classed as de-activating a fire arm.

Usually a gunsmith would undertake the work or maybe the proof hose then it needs its cert!

 

 

From Cambs police:-

You may have it deactivated, which must be by a Registered Firearms Dealer and then examined at a Proof House. The Proof House will proof mark the weapon, and issue it with a deactivation certificate. Once deactivated, the weapon is no longer considered a firearm, as it will be incapable of being fired, or being reactivated. Deactivating a weapon must be done officially, by a professional, it should not, under any circumstances, be undertaken by a layperson.

 

You MUST keep the Proof House Certificate safe, the weapon is not considered to be held legally unless you have both a Proof House mark on the gun and the relevant Proof House Certificate.

 

 

 

Hope this helps

PH

[markbivvy]

How does one go about the decomissioning of a Shotgun?

 

run it over, sorted your last one.

[LEFTY478]

How does one go about the decomissioning of a Shotgun?

 

run it over, sorted your last one.

 

I did wonder how long that would take to surface

[mry716]

To deactivate:-

Amongst other things you need to remove the firing pins and cut back the action faces so there is no chance it could be built up again with weld fill. You then need to cut a slot in the barrels (underneath) to the full extent of the cartridge chamber approx 1/2 wide on both tubes and then weld a hardened block into each barrel in front of the slot and submit to the Proof house for a Certificate.

 

DO NOT DO IT if there is any chance of the gun being worth keeping.

 

The barrels may well reproof despite pitting. Th proof house is very considerate on old guns and you can have quite a lot of metal removed to get rid of some pitting before submitting.

 

I have had a pre 1900 12 bore hammer gun pass proof at .744 (12 bore is .729 so this is now 11 bore) with tube thickness down to around 15 thou at one point - Damascus of course as even Whitworth's Fluid Steel Tubes were not that elastic.

 

Its always worth a try.

[Graham M]

I would agree with Mry 110% on this. Please don’t destroy a beautiful old gun by having it deactivated. Just leave it in your cabinet and take it out once in a while and clean and oil it. It deserves a better fate than to be butchered.

G.M.

[pin]

How does one go about the decomissioning of a Shotgun?

 

run it over, sorted your last one.

 

 

Priceless, sorry martin but that is funny

[peter-peter]

How does one go about the decomissioning of a Shotgun?

 

Reason i ask is i just received a Ward & sons rotary underlever round action side by side hammer gun with damascus barrels from my Uncle!

 

To be honest there is pitting in the barrels etc and it's never gonna be in proof unless i get it resleeved. (huge expense) It's no use to me but it has sentimental value to my Dad but not being a SGC holder I can only give it to him if it has been decomissioned and has a cert I beleive!

 

 

Can i decomission it myself or must it go away to a gunsmith etc??

 

Thanks for any help

 

LG

S Entwistle Blackpool 01253 790465

resleaved proofed and blacked or not but ready for use. only £395

add in millitaria mart

[mry716]

Sorry Peter but that isn't a good option as the tubes are more than likely to be akin to Gas Pipes and a job at that price suspect to say the least. But the most important part is the loss of the original Damascus. The original barrel would have to be very bad ( specifically between the ribs) for it not to be worth considering a reproof and new Damascus tubes are like Hens Teeth and so very expensive. There are, as far as I know, no UK tubes left but I do know of some Pre 1900 NEW Belgium tubes at a price that makes a new shotgun cheap..

[peter-peter]

Sorry Peter but that isn't a good option as the tubes are more than likely to be akin to Gas Pipes and a job at that price suspect to say the least. But the most important part is the loss of the original Damascus. The original barrel would have to be very bad ( specifically between the ribs) for it not to be worth considering a reproof and new Damascus tubes are like Hens Teeth and so very expensive. There are, as far as I know, no UK tubes left but I do know of some Pre 1900 NEW Belgium tubes at a price that makes a new shotgun cheap..

my thoughts also £395 sounds like a dream come true,

however a gun like mine that has beautiful browned damascus barrels but pitted inside & only proofed for black powder, what do you do with it.

you cant put it on your wall! where it ought to be

I doubt you could get it reproofed for nitro, as it is. but

to have it cnc bored and fitted with new sleeves at this price,

would make a nice usable old hammergun.

I would like to see a gun that this guy has done,

the original damasc would still be there but would the brown finish ? I would like to know.

I have in the past made damascus steel for knives in my forge, but not with a brown finish. i think the browning is added later.

for effect.

[Graham M]

Mmm, now this is interesting-

 

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/ORIGI...US_BARRELS.html

 

G.M.

[mry716]

My thoughts also £395 sounds like a dream come true,

However a gun like mine that has beautiful browned Damascus barrels but pitted inside & only proofed for black powder, what do you do with it.

You can’t put it on your wall! Where it ought to be

I doubt you could get it reproofed for nitro, as it is. But

To have it cnc bored and fitted with new sleeves at this price,

Would make a nice usable old hammer gun.

I would like to see a gun that this guy has done,

The original Damascus would still be there but would the brown finish? I would like to know.

I have in the past made Damascus steel for knives in my forge, but not with a brown finish. I think the browning is added later.

For effect.

 

 

Pitting that still allows black powder shooting safely could well clean up sufficiently for nitro reproof. Damascus barrels flex and spring so much more easily than steel tubes and will often accept a proof charge with thinner walls than a steel tube would. Shooting a Damascus tube filmed in slow motion is like watching a snake eat a rat as the bulge goes slowly down its body. As said, I have had barrels proofed in the past that would have rivelled or bulged if they had been steel and therefore failed. Also there is more Proof House tolerance to Damascus tubes than still re pitting BUT only surface pitting.

 

The worst area for pitting is the part down the barrels between the ribs. Often the rusting is between the ribs and started from the corrosive aspects of the solder flux that couldn’t be cleaned out properly and the pitting one sees in the tube is actually holes from the outside (between the ribs). I use a 14" piece of silver steel 3/16" bar sharpened and bent at 90 degrees 1/2" from the end and try to force it into the pits - sometimes it breaks through. If so the barrels are scrap or just a wall piece.

 

Old 12 bores are often proofed at small sizes - 13 bore - so can be opened up considerably to remove pitting and the like and reproofed at the new appropriate size. It could start out at 709, 719, 729 (standard 12 bore) and reproof at up to 740+. Proof begins and end within 10 thou so 9 thou larger than the proof size. If your tubes are now after lapping 737 they will proof at 729 BUT only as reproof have a couple of thou before another reproof is necessary.

 

Resleeving does not add a new tube inside the old tube but adds a full diameter new tube ‘sleeved’ into the cut off breach. The end result is a steel blued barrel with a joint about 4" from the action. It is always noticible as the breach is Damascus and the tube steel so never blues the same.

It is just the same method that a lot of new o/unders use, so as you see you loose the Damascus altogether.

 

Browning or bluing is just a controlled rusting process to protect the barrels and is quite simple to do with the correct tools and chemicals. Get a copy of Angiers - Blueing and Browning and have a go. It is very satisfying to do your own barrels in the time honoured way.

M

[peter-peter]

My thoughts also £395 sounds like a dream come true,

However a gun like mine that has beautiful browned Damascus barrels but pitted inside & only proofed for black powder, what do you do with it.

You can’t put it on your wall! Where it ought to be

I doubt you could get it reproofed for nitro, as it is. But

To have it cnc bored and fitted with new sleeves at this price,

Would make a nice usable old hammer gun.

I would like to see a gun that this guy has done,

The original Damascus would still be there but would the brown finish? I would like to know.

I have in the past made Damascus steel for knives in my forge, but not with a brown finish. I think the browning is added later.

For effect.

 

 

 

Pitting that still allows black powder shooting safely could well clean up sufficiently for nitro reproof. Damascus barrels flex and spring so much more easily than steel tubes and will often accept a proof charge with thinner walls than a steel tube would. Shooting a Damascus tube filmed in slow motion is like watching a snake eat a rat as the bulge goes slowly down its body. As said, I have had barrels proofed in the past that would have rivelled or bulged if they had been steel and therefore failed. Also there is more Proof House tolerance to Damascus tubes than still re pitting BUT only surface pitting.

 

The worst area for pitting is the part down the barrels between the ribs. Often the rusting is between the ribs and started from the corrosive aspects of the solder flux that couldn’t be cleaned out properly and the pitting one sees in the tube is actually holes from the outside (between the ribs). I use a 14" piece of silver steel 3/16" bar sharpened and bent at 90 degrees 1/2" from the end and try to force it into the pits - sometimes it breaks through. If so the barrels are scrap or just a wall piece.

 

Old 12 bores are often proofed at small sizes - 13 bore - so can be opened up considerably to remove pitting and the like and reproofed at the new appropriate size. It could start out at 709, 719, 729 (standard 12 bore) and reproof at up to 740+. Proof begins and end within 10 thou so 9 thou larger than the proof size. If your tubes are now after lapping 737 they will proof at 729 BUT only as reproof have a couple of thou before another reproof is necessary.

 

Resleeving does not add a new tube inside the old tube but adds a full diameter new tube ‘sleeved’ into the cut off breach. The end result is a steel blued barrel with a joint about 4" from the action. It is always noticible as the breach is Damascus and the tube steel so never blues the same.

It is just the same method that a lot of new o/unders use, so as you see you loose the Damascus altogether.

 

Browning or bluing is just a controlled rusting process to protect the barrels and is quite simple to do with the correct tools and chemicals. Get a copy of Angiers - Blueing and Browning and have a go. It is very satisfying to do your own barrels in the time honoured way.

M

 

very interesting bit of info

I was told they bored the barrels oversize and inserted an internal sleeve.

ill see if i can get a copy of angiers guide. that will be interesting. to me

[mry716]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0...7527348-7912718

[arjimlad]

There was an article in Sporting Gun about this type of thing. Nigel Teague of Teague Choke fame, is offering a sleeving technique which preserves the exterior of the barrels.

 

If it has such sentimental value then you may find that later in life you can afford to have it sorted out for use again, and regret any rash action you may take now.

[mry716]

Yes, I heard about that as well.

 

Did he ever get the process accepted by the Proof House as I believe it was originally rejected?

[Graham M]

http://www.teaguechokes.co.uk/barrel_restoration.html

G.M.

[mry716]

So it looks as if it is a production method - Apologies to Peter as I didn't realise it was ever done commercially. The normal process of course is as I described.

 

It intrigues me that when you get the whole tube down to a wall thickness around half of the gap we set our spark plugs to in the car the Damascus doesn't just 'crumble' ie the iron and steel separate under either the machining or the heating.

 

Well done Teague.