Tim Kelly Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 My cartridge stocks are running low but I had some steel 32g 4 shot, so for the last three outings I thought I'd give it a go on our rough shoot. Some interesting results and a a dangerous one. I was surprised by some of the kills. Head and neck shots, as well as body shots that didn't cause the instant death I'd expect with lead was the first one. Some instantaneous kills as you'd expect and some woundings from poorly placed shots, but a surprising number that didn't die outright and flew on for a distance. When retrieved there was clearly big front end bleeding, which I wonder if it meant the shot went straight through without losing energy on impact and the birds bled out more than the shock kill? The worrying result was that shooting a squirrel out of a tree saw a ricochet hitting a fellow gun on the head about 40 yards away. Pretty certain that wouldn't happen with lead. Not really any point to this post, but I just wondered if anyone else had similar experiences and whether there should be more prominent ricochet warnings when using steel in woodland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catamong Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 Tim, Your findings are pretty much what I experienced when switching from Lead to Steel for Pigeons, (I've not used Steel loads on Game), I think you will find that a lot of clay clubs have banned Steel shot due to the perceived danger from ricochets, although yours is the first actual incident that I have been made aware of..? I mistakenly used Steel loads from 32g to 36g shot size 4 & 5 in an attempt to find the ideal Pigeon load, but I've got to say that I've now settled on a 28g load, (Gamebore Black Gold HV, 28g, 7.5's, plaswad), which certainly kill Pigeons much more effectively at reasonable ranges that the bigger, heavier loads.. More is better than bigger when it comes to Steel pellets killing power. Cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 My cartridge stocks are running low but I had some steel 32g 4 shot, so for the last three outings I thought I'd give it a go on our rough shoot. Some interesting results and a a dangerous one. I was surprised by some of the kills. Head and neck shots, as well as body shots that didn't cause the instant death I'd expect with lead was the first one. Some instantaneous kills as you'd expect and some woundings from poorly placed shots, but a surprising number that didn't die outright and flew on for a distance. When retrieved there was clearly big front end bleeding, which I wonder if it meant the shot went straight through without losing energy on impact and the birds bled out more than the shock kill? The worrying result was that shooting a squirrel out of a tree saw a ricochet hitting a fellow gun on the head about 40 yards away. Pretty certain that wouldn't happen with lead. Not really any point to this post, but I just wondered if anyone else had similar experiences and whether there should be more prominent ricochet warnings when using steel in woodland. Pretty well documented about ricochet risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted January 26, 2017 Report Share Posted January 26, 2017 There are some good and bad steel cartridges as there in lead. I have found Gamebore 32gr in 3s work well shooting pigeons or game out to 40 yards. For longer shots to 50 yard Gamebore 36gr Mammoth are brilliant. Eley Lightnings and RC are also very good. Wounding is something I do not have a problem with , indeed I shoot on average 500 steel shots a year and find a wound far less with steel than you do with lead. Steel is far more sensitive to your gun and its chokes than lead. I have found open chokes are a lot better for most shooting though will use a full afterchoke when using large shot ( BB or BBB ). However the effect of choke seems to vary from gun to gun. 1\2 choke in my browning produces a good patern about 2' across at 35 yards while the same choke in my franchi produces a patten barley a foot across. as for ricochets as far as I know i have never had one with steel. Shoot steel like lead and you will not get the best from it , but use a HP load, fast cartridge, large shot and the correct choke and it is good as lead. What steel will not do is fluke down birds beyond normal ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I think I was most amazed by the amount of bleeding and the lack of instantaneous death. The ricochet thing is a big deal in woodland I think. I expect that if we're forced to use steel more and more there will be a significant rise in people getting hurt by stray pellets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Hit the bird correctly with steel and it will die, exactly the same as using lead. Perhaps you didn't shoot too well that day. Steel cartridges do not need to be fast to be effective, unlike many suggest. 1300 fps is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I was an MoD range warden at the time and simply for info', on ranges where shotgun use was authorised when steel shot was introduced the splash back distance was immediately doubled from that for lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) It's not that they didn't die. The one's hit well died just like any other bird shot with lead, but there were a couple of birds which were hit hard but died in a different way to I would expect using lead. Much more bleeding. One in particular was hit mainly in the neck and head area and it changed direction might flight, flew on for about 40 yards actively flying into the ground. When retrieved it was dead and there was massive bleeding from the head and neck area. Might just be one of those things, but it's not a type of reaction I've seen before when using lead and there was a lot more bleeding. Didn't particularly matter as it died and was retrieved, but it was strange and I thought notewothy. Edited January 27, 2017 by Tim Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anser2 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) The increase in bleeding was something I found with the early steel cartridges. Lead has a dum dum effect and some veins are crushed rather than cut as in steel. And a cut vein will bleed more. Some hard lead shells had the same effect ( High Tech ) As for fast Motty 1300 fps is reasonably fast ( though far from the fastest ) . Some of the Lydale - Express were barely making 950 fps ( back search the test results are published in these pages some years ago ) and these cartridges were pretty poor killers ( my last lot ended up in a hole in the ground ) Todays steel shells are light years ahead of the early shells. Tim what brand were you using ?.. Edited January 27, 2017 by anser2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 If, say, you're used to no 6s in lead and then go to No4s in steel and hit a major blood vessel the wound canal will be well over 1&1/2 times in area so perhaps an increase in blood flow is to be expected - just guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Gamebore 2 3/4 32g 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Gamebore 2 3/4 32g 4. Your lead was also No 4, then i guessed wrong. Edit: Perhaps I didn't. Edited January 27, 2017 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted January 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 No lead was clear pigeon 6 30g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 All shot can ricochet, I have seen plenty of lead shot ricochet insurance claims over the last 20 years, some surfaces are more likely to be problems for lead than steel and vice versa All shot kills by causing catastrophic damage to critical tissues such as major blood vessels or the central nervous sysyem, regardless of what the shot is made of. The points about lead shot not behaving like for like as lead is very true so do try different types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Those 32 gm steel 4 are exactly what i was using yesterday. I had 3 out of 4 wigeon stone dead at ranges of 25 - 40 yards. The one that was not dead was at least 50 yards. The bloke sat next to me shot a 40 yard greylag that was the next best thing to stone dead - same cartridges used. I have found those Gamebore to be a very potent medium sized duck cartridge. Check out my pigeon shooting video on YouTube from last July to see how they perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Kelly Posted January 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 The majority of the pheasants and pigeons I shot with them were dead too, it's the ones that weren't dead which acted differently to wounded birds shot with lead, that was my observation really. Ricochets happen with lead, but I wouldn't expect lead to bounce off a tree virtually straight back at me and hit someone 20 yards behind me, which is what happened. I have been shooting for about 30 years, so it's not like I'm amazed and bewildered by every little thing. Having only used steel on ducks and geese in the open before I was surprised by the extra danger and complications using steel in a more varied environment with trees and other hazards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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