Gun fit

[Jacko3275]

How much on average does it cost  to make a gun fit and how long do they need your gun for  cheers peeps

[Westley]

How long is a piece of string  ?

The answer  depends on the amount of work involved. I recently accompanied a friend to a Gunsmith that I trust to do stock work. Because of the amount of work involved, his bill will be in excess of £200. I recently had a palm swell reduced on my 725, which involved re-chequering the grip, and that was £150.  Average 'turn around' is about 2/3 weeks.

[Diver One]

7 minutes ago, Westley said:

How long is a piece of string  ?...........twice as long as it is from the middle to one end 😂

The answer  depends on the amount of work involved. I recently accompanied a friend to a Gunsmith that I trust to do stock work. Because of the amount of work involved, his bill will be in excess of £200. I recently had a palm swell reduced on my 725, which involved re-chequering the grip, and that was £150.  Average 'turn around' is about 2/3 weeks.

Who did you use for the stock work?........my mates son may need some work  doing on his

[Hamster]

32 minutes ago, Jacko3275 said:

How much on average does it cost  to make a gun fit and how long do they need your gun for  cheers peeps

I'd say on average at least three years; that's prolly the length of time (starting from scratch) it takes for you to discover what you need. 

Although you're asking about the cost of the mechanical part of getting the gun bent/sawed to suit (around £200), the real cost lies in how many shots you have to fire to arrive at the desired conclusion. Once there you will find that every now and then you will need to make further minor changes as your style and physique changes/develops. 

It's probably cost me about £170k. 

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Hamster said:

I'd say on average at least three years; that's prolly the length of time (starting from scratch) it takes for you to discover what you need. 

Although you're asking about the cost of the mechanical part of getting the gun bent/sawed to suit (around £200), the real cost lies in how many shots you have to fire to arrive at the desired conclusion. Once there you will find that every now and then you will need to make further minor changes as your style and physique changes/develops. 

It's probably cost me about £170k. 

Sorry Hammy, but I have to disagree over this one. My Westley had the cast altered to left handed BEFORE I bought it. Although I had already been shooting for some ten years and I believe my gun mount was reasonable and consistent, I failed to notice this. Even the 2 triggers were still set for a right hander. It took the local gunsmith to notice the problem. He then had 2 attempts to cast it right, but over a 12 month period each time, it went back to left handed. In frustration, I contacted Westley Richards and well, the rest is history. The stocker did leave the stock clamped for some 3 weeks though. A friend of mine also went to Westley's some months later, after seeing me shooting. I did think that the stocker would have his work cut out because this guy could NOT mount his gun in the same way TWICE in the same season  !  After Westley's it went to two other gunfitters, all of whom got it wrong. It ended up with Ken Davies at Holland's, who must have caught him on a good day and got it right. The person in question is a regular visitor to a certain shop in Cannock and each time his gun gets altered once again !  He has over 50 years shooting experience  ?  So, unless you have a modicum of knowledge regarding gunfit, it will take far in excess of 3 years.

It is one of my favourite shoot lunch topics. I ask how many shooters sat around the lunch table have had their gun CORRECTLY fitted  ?  The answer is very few. They will spend thousands of pounds on a gun, several more thousand pounds on a seasons shooting, then baulk about paying a couple of hundred pounds to have their gun fitted. There is nothing more enjoyable than shooting with a well fitted gun and I think you know as well as I,  that very few (if any) top shooters are using a 'straight from the box' gun.

I forgot to add that the Westley has NEVER been altered since 1981 and I still use to this day, to the same degree.

1 hour ago, Diver One said:

Who did you use for the stock work?........my mates son may need some work  doing on his

I will PM you.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Westley

[Diver One]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

will PM you.

👍thanks

[Hamster]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

Sorry Hammy, but I have to disagree over this one. My Westley had the cast altered to left handed BEFORE I bought it. Although I had already been shooting for some ten years and I believe my gun mount was reasonable and consistent, I failed to notice this. Even the 2 triggers were still set for a right hander. It took the local gunsmith to notice the problem. He then had 2 attempts to cast it right, but over a 12 month period each time, it went back to left handed. In frustration, I contacted Westley Richards and well, the rest is history. The stocker did leave the stock clamped for some 3 weeks though. A friend of mine also went to Westley's some months later, after seeing me shooting. I did think that the stocker would have his work cut out because this guy could NOT mount his gun in the same way TWICE in the same season  !  After Westley's it went to two other gunfitters, all of whom got it wrong. It ended up with Ken Davies at Holland's, who must have caught him on a good day and got it right. The person in question is a regular visitor to a certain shop in Cannock and each time his gun gets altered once again !  He has over 50 years shooting experience  ?  So, unless you have a modicum of knowledge regarding gunfit, it will take far in excess of 3 years.

It is one of my favourite shoot lunch topics. I ask how many shooters sat around the lunch table have had their gun CORRECTLY fitted  ?  The answer is very few. They will spend thousands of pounds on a gun, several more thousand pounds on a seasons shooting, then baulk about paying a couple of hundred pounds to have their gun fitted. There is nothing more enjoyable than shooting with a well fitted gun and I think you know as well as I,  that very few (if any) top shooters are using a 'straight from the box' gun.

I forgot to add that the Westley has NEVER been altered since 1981 and I still use to this day, to the same degree.

I will PM you.

First off 👍  no real argument there, I must admit that whenever I get involved in "fit" questions I tend to view it (rather foolishly) in pure clay target terms so my answers have to be seen in that context. I kind of meant that on average a person who starts from scratch and shoots moving targets seriously as a hobby and who really wants to improve to his/her best ability (there are thousands who simply don't) then three years is about the time it takes for the penny to start to drop about things that will help them shoot better. 

Giving a set of instructions/measurements to a stock man will typically mean a two week wait and a couple of hundred quid. Arriving at those measurements yourself needs thousands of pounds to be spent, the latter is infinitely more likely to prove right. 

[Jacko3275]

So just going somewhere with my gun and asking them what they think should be done and altering it if need be is pointless for me at the minute as I’ve  only been shooting 10 month and only had the gun 5 month 

[Westley]

4 hours ago, Jacko3275 said:

So just going somewhere with my gun and asking them what they think should be done and altering it if need be is pointless for me at the minute as I’ve  only been shooting 10 month and only had the gun 5 month 

I think that 1 lesson with a reputable and preferably recommended Instructor/Coach to determine your current approximate gun fit,  but more your ability to mount the gun to cheek and shoulder correctly and consistently, would be of some benefit. Without correct gun mounting being  carried out in the same way each and every time,  any gun fitting is a pointless exercise.  

[Saltings]

7 hours ago, Westley said:

I think that 1 lesson with a reputable and preferably recommended Instructor/Coach to determine your current approximate gun fit,  but more your ability to mount the gun to cheek and shoulder correctly and consistently, would be of some benefit. Without correct gun mounting being  carried out in the same way each and every time,  any gun fitting is a pointless exercise.  

agree you must have a consistent gun mount only gained from shooting regularly , muscle memory ,   you may have developed miss mount / lifting your head /stopping your gun/ swing through and hope and pray  /  swing too fast and hesitate hence shoot behind,     slow and smooth gun mount you are on target faster  , everything rushed too much to correct and the target is away  , when your mount is smooth and consistent then a stock adjustment can be made and you will not regret spending the money as an improvement is noticeable for the consistency improvements        however missed targets are down to pilot error a gun is just a tool,  if the gun is shooting where you are looking the rest is down to the pilot miss reading the target 

[Jacko3275]

On 21/10/2019 at 17:14, Westley said:

I think that 1 lesson with a reputable and preferably recommended Instructor/Coach to determine your current approximate gun fit,  but more your ability to mount the gun to cheek and shoulder correctly and consistently, would be of some benefit. Without correct gun mounting being  carried out in the same way each and every time,  any gun fitting is a pointless exercise.  

so how do you know your mounting correct if the gun doesn’t fit  and if your mounting correct how does a lesson tell you the guns not right I guess there are too many questions on this that can’t truly be answered I could go for a lesson and dust 100% of the clays but the day after miss 75 %  if I gave George Digweed my cheap ata I bet he could still hit well above 80 90 %  So is it gun fit or just know how that makes you better

Edited October 22, 2019 by Jacko3275

[Hamster]

27 minutes ago, Jacko3275 said:

so how do you know your mounting correct if the gun doesn’t fit  and if your mounting correct how does a lesson tell you the guns not right I guess there are too many questions on this that can’t truly be answered I could go for a lesson and dust 100% of the clays but the day after miss 75 %  if I gave George Digweed my cheap ata I bet he could still hit well above 80 90 %  So is it gun fit or just know how that makes you better

👍

Maybe not 90% with any gun but he will beat almost anybody with their own gun because he has knowledge they lack.

Gun fit IS important but it isn't critical to the point of robbing you of 30 targets a round, maybe 2-4 at this stage. I am not saying a beginner or B class should make do with a gun that is obviously wrong or flawed, for instance you must find the recoil cycle comfortable and not have your cheek slapped in any way but that falls in the bleedin' obvious category not refined gun fit which will come in good time. 

A lot of people give advice on gun fit and shooting in general but few are anywhere near AA never mind in a position of actually knowing what they're talking about rather than just repeating stuff they've read which sounds right/plausible. 

[Scully]

47 minutes ago, Jacko3275 said:

so how do you know your mounting correct if the gun doesn’t fit  and if your mounting correct how does a lesson tell you the guns not right I guess there are too many questions on this that can’t truly be answered I could go for a lesson and dust 100% of the clays but the day after miss 75 %  if I gave George Digweed my cheap ata I bet he could still hit well above 80 90 %  So is it gun fit or just know how that makes you better

Most people buy a gun they like the look of and then learn to shoot with it.

You can make almost any gun fit you if you take the time to practise good and correct technique, but how many practise their mount at home on a regular basis? I have many shooting mates, but I only know of one other apart from me, who does this.
A good mate puts his Beretta and his Browning away in their cabinets after an indifferent game season, and leaves them there until the first driven syndicate day of the next season comes around, and then wonders why he seldom hits anything. I don’t know of any other sportsmen or women who would do this, in any sport, whether hobbyist or professional. 
I have golfing mates who are out most weekends, a nephew who plays snooker at any opportunity, a daughter who plays tennis as often as possible, and a son who does likewise at football. 
No one can fit a gun to anyone who doesn’t have a consistent mount, and it’s also worth bearing in mind that even your consistent mount can change somewhat, dependant on your clothing. 🙂
You can practise your mount in front of a mirror with an empty gun.
Adopt the correct stance and close your eyes, then mount the gun ( even this action can be done incorrectly if you ‘see-saw’ the gun )  and if you’re right handed then open your right eye. If you can see your right eye directly above the rib looking back at you, then jolly good. If not then do it again, making slight adjustments to your mount each time AS you mount it, until you can do it consistently. Then practise practise practise until it becomes second nature and muscle memory develops and delivers every time. 
This doesn’t mean you can now stop practising though. Do it long enough and you’ll find your gun doesn’t need fitting....you’ve already done it. 
 

[Jacko3275]

I stand in the back garden practicing mount to get that muscle memory I want to be a good shot and free practice is good 

26 minutes ago, Scully said:

Most people buy a gun they like the look of and then learn to shoot with it.

You can make almost any gun fit you if you take the time to practise good and correct technique, but how many practise their mount at home on a regular basis? I have many shooting mates, but I only know of one other apart from me, who does this.
A good mate puts his Beretta and his Browning away in their cabinets after an indifferent game season, and leaves them there until the first driven syndicate day of the next season comes around, and then wonders why he seldom hits anything. I don’t know of any other sportsmen or women who would do this, in any sport, whether hobbyist or professional. 
I have golfing mates who are out most weekends, a nephew who plays snooker at any opportunity, a daughter who plays tennis as often as possible, and a son who does likewise at football. 
No one can fit a gun to anyone who doesn’t have a consistent mount, and it’s also worth bearing in mind that even your consistent mount can change somewhat, dependant on your clothing. 🙂
You can practise your mount in front of a mirror with an empty gun.
Adopt the correct stance and close your eyes, then mount the gun ( even this action can be done incorrectly if you ‘see-saw’ the gun )  and if you’re right handed then open your right eye. If you can see your right eye directly above the rib looking back at you, then jolly good. If not then do it again, making slight adjustments to your mount each time AS you mount it, until you can do it consistently. Then practise practise practise until it becomes second nature and muscle memory develops and delivers every time. 
This doesn’t mean you can now stop practising though. Do it long enough and you’ll find your gun doesn’t need fitting....you’ve already done it.