Yorkshire Pudding Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 please follow the link :- http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArt....1988322 I thought Submachine guns were already illegal. The gov. are now thinking of giving ya 5yrs for carrying an illegal firearm. What the hell is the punishment now ?? box of terrys all gold and a holiday in Nigeria.:( How many legally held handguns were collected in after the knee jerk reaction of 520 M.P's? After 1 mad man massacred 17(sorry not sure of the exact number)? innocents ?? Handguns are still being used in crimes.So what was the point in takeing all the legally held ones off people. Please reply. all the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Anyone know what the usual sentence is for carrying an illegal gun at the moment? I'm sure that the most sensible approach would be to put more resources into catching them and locking them up. Most of them are willing to commit murder with their guns, and so I don't think a 5 year sentence for posession is really going to scare them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 I remember reading some time ago, that it was suggested anyone carrying a firearm when committing a robbery or assault, would get "life" imprisonment. At that time, the "experts" said this was wrong, because the criminal would then use the gun to try to escape, rather than go to prison for that amount of time. Whats changed ? The massive increase in handgun crime and illegal ownership, has proved what a pathetic decision it was for the Government to ban legally held handguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 There's no way round the fact, that to fight crime, what we need is MORE POLICE and more resources for them. It's no good having more laws if you can't enforce the current ones and lock up the bad guys! Guns on the streets are a menace to society. Pesonally, I'm not bothered when the gang members shoot each other - it means there's less criminals about. It's just that bystanders get hurt in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game bore Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Top man Hammergun I'll go with that, all I can say its unfortunate that the **** in Dunblane didn't use a cricket bat, that would have saved us a lot of embarassment in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berettaboy Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 The usual sentence for carrying an illegal firearm is non-custodial. As for the Birmingham shootings, it's a shame that people have to die in this way, but were they really all that innocent? I see that the police want to talk to one of the girl’s half brother about the shootings, he has conveniently disappeared. As my mother used to say fly with the crows. Get shot with the crows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdowns hunter Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 I dont agree that its good for these gangs to be killing each other for the simple fact that everytime someone in this country gets shot it is another nail in the coffin of the sporting gun owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Its interesting, that whilst the "Authorities" may consider further restrictions on gun ownership, as a way of controlling gun crime (I know it doesn,t work).Quite a few members of the public are starting to think otherwise. Its suprising how many of my friends, that know I shoot and own guns, have asked me about licences, gun costs etc. These people aren,t asking, to become clay or bird shooters, they are interested in personal and property security. I get the impression that the only time their gun would be in their security cabinet, is when the Firearms Officer came to call. I don,t support this practice, but I do understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Watching tonights news I see the government are rushing in another daily "knee jerker" law. Todays new law says that it is illegal to carry a replica gun and also illegal for under 17,s to own airguns.Will have to wait to see what the judges and legal experts make of this one.Wnen are they going to realise that the current laws are more than adequate and just need enforcing? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 All the 15 and 16 year olds I know who go out unaccompanied with air rifles I would consider to be safe and responsible. However, most of them are rural dwellers, and the airgun is considered to be as much a tool as a means of entertainment. I'm a little unsure as to what an inner city youth who never ventures out of town wants an airgun for other than to cause mischief. Quite what someone wants with an air pistol which is a replica of a real handgun is a mystery to me, unless, of course they want other people to think it is the real thing when they rob them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Hammergun,I agree with your observations entirely,my point was that rushing through these "knee jerking" laws without full debate and consideration only leaves us with more draconian restrictions on law abiding shooters. Just look at the results of the Dunblane shootings where ,if the existing laws at the time had been properly enforced,they would have prevented the madman owning a firearms certificate in the first place. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 This is the "item" from Freeserve news. "The Home Secretary has announced the carrying of replica guns and air weapons in public will be banned. David Blunkett says legislation will be introduced to ban anyone carrying a replica or air weapon "in a public place without a good reason". The age limit for acquiring and using an air weapon without adult supervision will be increased from 14 to 17, Mr Blunkett said. The Home Office said the ban would cover anything that looked like a firearm, not just those capable of conversion to live ammunition. In theory that could see people being arrested for carrying a child's toy or a gun-shaped cigarette lighter if they did not have a "reasonable excuse". A Home Office spokeswoman said arrests would be down to police officers using their discretion. The spokeswoman said: "It's about anything that can be mistaken for a firearm. It would come down to the proper use of police officer or judicial discretion and the laws will have to be implemented sensibly by police. "If someone is waving a cigarette lighter shaped like a firearm at police officers then that is very different from it being used to light a cigarette in a pub." The Home Office is also looking at a ban on the sale, manufacture and import of weapons, including certain models of Brocock, which can be readily converted to fire live ammunition. In London, 75% of guns seized are converted imitations or converted blank firers. Senior officers say many offences recorded as gun crime are carried out with replicas." Licencing airweapons next ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flightline Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 On the news it just said Blunkett was proposing to make the carrying of airguns as well as replicas in a public place illegal unless there was a "good reason". This is a lousy dishonest illiberal government more concerned with its image among the red tops and in getting re-elected than in anthing real and meaningful. Why on earth shouldn`t people have replicas if it gives them pleasure? We have quite sufficient laws already to prevent abuse as long as they are properly enforced. This sort of nonsense will lead to further draconian restrictions on legitimate shooting unless a stand is made NOW. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flightline Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Thanks for the update Cranfield. It`s a nonsense and will not be enacted in this form as it`s plainly unjust and oppressive and incapable of being fairly applied. If an officer doesn`t like the look of me and I`m carrying my gun at a service station in a slip as a security measure, I can be nicked can I? OK, I`d get off in Court no doubt but I could be detained for no other reason than sheer bloody ignorance. OUTRAGE! :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 I'm really getting quite wound up a the moment,i am a member of a number of shooting forums,and they are of course full with similar posts to these,ie bans ,more regulations,why dont the government get the illegal guns off the streets etc etc.Now i have been watching the tv news nd since i got back to work after christmas have had a radio on basically all week,the media as we all know has been full of it but all one sided,every news clip or radio interview containes clips of anti gun campaigners spouting off wildley inaccurate and completly wide of the mark "sound bites" nd comments,in all of this i have heard nothingfrom basc,thesportsmans association and all the rest,i am sure when i buy sporting gun and gun mart next month they will be full to bursting with comments from all of these organisations saying how wrong the new leglislation is and how they are fighting to get them repealed all the way,the problem is they are preaching to the converted i know we have to be kept informed but they should be much more proactive right now putting our points across to the general public not telling us shooters what we know allready in three weeks time.I'm sure that some representatives have been active somewhere but i certinlyhavent heard them.The only time i have heard the "other" side of the story is when an interviewer puts a point accross to an anti gun campaigner just to lead them into another rant. :( :( :evil: :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Now then, heres my pennys worth........I've been a shooter for over 20 years, using various weapons........I've also done several years as an armed response cop and tactical aid unit sniper, dealing with lots of firearms incidents over these years. In all that time, I never dealt with a SINGLE crime that involved a legally held weapon/certificate holder......what's that tell you?........THAT THIS HOME SECRETARY IS A COMPLETE WA*KER, and the only bo**ocks he has, are the BO**OCKS he talks.... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted January 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Hope the home secretary dont see that and get ****** off. all the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elma Fud Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 I'm really getting quite wound up a the moment,i am a member of a number of shooting forums,and they are of course full with similar posts to these,ie bans ,more regulations,why dont the government get the illegal guns off the streets etc etc.Now i have been watching the tv news nd since i got back to work after christmas have had a radio on basically all week,the media as we all know has been full of it but all one sided,every news clip or radio interview containes clips of anti gun campaigners spouting off wildley inaccurate and completly wide of the mark "sound bites" nd comments,in all of this i have heard nothingfrom basc,thesportsmans association and all the rest,i am sure when i buy sporting gun and gun mart next month they will be full to bursting with comments from all of these organisations saying how wrong the new leglislation is and how they are fighting to get them repealed all the way,the problem is they are preaching to the converted i know we have to be kept informed but they should be much more proactive right now putting our points across to the general public not telling us shooters what we know allready in three weeks time.I'm sure that some representatives have been active somewhere but i certinlyhavent heard them.The only time i have heard the "other" side of the story is when an interviewer puts a point accross to an anti gun campaigner just to lead them into another rant. :( :( :evil: :( I am employed as a firefighter, and as you are aware we have been striking recently. The amount of disinformation that has been circulated by the government was unreal, The modernisation that Tony talked about in the Bain report is a joke as we already fulfil 80% of that reports recommendations. This is not a knee jerk reaction to an incident that has just happened, but simply the government waiting for the right moment to introduce new law, with the publics support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Y.P., I hope Mr Plunkett does see this.......he is yet to reply to the several emails I have sent him about the Police reform bill, so I would be surprised(and delighted) if he suddenly found some moral courage now. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Slightly off topic I know but I would like to give an example of Mr average Joe public,s comprehension of guns.My son on 6 weeks leave from serving in the Gulf war went to the local outdoor for a 4 pack one evening.He was picking out his beer when a bloke burst in brandishing a gun and demanded the takings.The owner played safe and handed over the money.When the police arrived they asked my son and the other customer in the shop what they saw and what sort of gun the guy was carrying,the other witness,a middle aged man replied that the gunman was carrying a sawn off shotgun and that it was high time that such things were banned.My son laughed and said that it was a small callibre pistol to which the officer sarcastically replied "I suppose you are an expert on guns then". After disclosing his "credentials" my son,s statement was taken seriously. The hold up guys were arrested soon after and they were in fact using an air pistol,but the point is that the ignorance of the average man in the street puts everyone with a gun legal or otherwise in the same bracket.As long as the government passes a new law against the lawful shooters after every incident ,regardless of the connection to the crime comitted,they appear in the public,s eyes to be attacking the problem. :what: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdowns hunter Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 I thought the home secetary was a blind guy, I very much doubt if he will be reading posts in pigeon watch uk :( :( and Deako thats not a very nice way to talk about your employer :( :( Even though you are correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NGhost Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 There was a good balanced phone-in on radio 4 the other day. The pundit in the studio basically said "that when a criminal breaks the law with a gun the government reacts by clamping down on the lawful gun users. The problem with this is that criminals tend not to obey the law." I would say that the majority of people phoning in agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted January 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 :( :( :( woohoo HH :( :( :( I'd like to go to the pub with you fella!!!! :( :( :( all the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flightline Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Who said the Government`s reaction to recent events was not knee-jerk? That`s right. The Civil Service is full of lefties (OK there are some exceptions) and it is constantly lobbied by people with whom they have a lot of sympathy. They develop a shopping list of the lobbyists` demands. When there is some sort of press or public outcry (mainly press), they go to the next 2 or 3 on their list. This is how it works. It is a ratchet. This is also why, unless people are incredibly voluble and active, we are bound to see further restrictions on shooting over the forseeable future under Governments of any colour. I`m sorry to say it really is that simple. :( :( :( :( :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bry Posted January 11, 2003 Report Share Posted January 11, 2003 Top post Neil. Guns do not kill it is the person Squeezing the trigger.(Drug dealers mainly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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