quentyn Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 20g subsonic, non toxic, fibre. Something like a 30g No5 or 6 i know that such a beastie doesnt exist but is there anyone who can make up a box or 3 ? Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 What's this for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted May 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 somewhere i dont want to shoot lead but i need to be quiet - i presume that as you can get this in lead it must be possible in bismuth ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 that will be expensive, really expensive to shoot and make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) Make some steel shells up. I used some home loads on the pigeons yesterday. They were quiet and did a cracking job. Edited to say, that I have just realised that the required shells would most likely not be fired through a hush power. My home loads weren't subsonic. Edited May 14, 2020 by motty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted May 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 I dont mind paying a pound a bang as I don't need many, is there someone who can make me up a batch ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 I've got everything to make these bar the non tox shot. A pound a bang isn't that much when you take that into account. I assume you would need something like Bismuth shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 14, 2020 Report Share Posted May 14, 2020 Look up metro gun, . https://www.metrogun.com/index.html Facebook pages and instagram Orion silencer and the metro barrels and extensions are quiet . there is data for subsonics Heavy Goose Federal 3" 12 Guage Hull Federal 209-A Primer 19 grs Alliant "Steel" Powder 1 1/4 oz. T Steel or other type of heavy, non-toxic shot 3" steel shot wad, or BP Pattern Driver MV 983 fps Pattern with Modified Choke: 89% @ 40 Yards Goose / Duck 2 3/4" Federal 12 Gauge Hull Federal 209-A Primer 20 grs Herco Powder 1 1/4 oz. T Steel(Goose) or BB Steel (Duck) MV 869 fps Pattern with Modified Choke: 91.8% @ 40 Yards New 20 Gauge Data (Use with Metro Gun 20 Gauge Adapter System) Federal 3" 20 Gauge Hull 209 Primer (Any) 12 grs Hodgdon "Longshot" Powder RS or any other steel shot wad Felt under shot wad, as required for correct crimp MV 887 fps Pattern with Modified Choke: 88% @ 40 yards IMPORTANT! All of these loads are reduced-powder charges that are enough to allow for changes in wad, shot type, and under shot wads to adjust for correct crimp levels. DO NOT exceed these powder amounts as it will greatly increase sound, and pressure will become unstable. Be sure you understand the principles of handloading before you attempt to reload any ammunition. Any deviation from these principles can result in SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted May 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 20 hours ago, sitsinhedges said: I've got everything to make these bar the non tox shot. A pound a bang isn't that much when you take that into account. I assume you would need something like Bismuth shot. yes i suspect bismuth can you swap lead for bismuth in shell recipes one for one ? i presume that ballistically it performs very similar to lead ? looking here https://www.claygame.co.uk/bismuth-shot-pd7 seems to be about 54 a KG which means you can get 33 cartridges a KG ? ie £1.60 per cartridge + the hull, primer, wad, powder and labour ? so i am probably looking at £2 a cartridge ? is there a cheaper way of getting it ? ebay USA seems to suggest ~£22 a KG is the going rate in the USA ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 Ive replaced lead, for bismuth shot. I did it by volume. Pressures went down. Speeds went up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 It's really not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted May 15, 2020 Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 23 minutes ago, sitsinhedges said: It's really not worth it. I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted May 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2020 41 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: I agree i am starting to think that there isnt an economic way of shooting subsonic non toxic ? does this mean in 5 years there wont be subsonic shotguns ? what do people do when they need to shoot quietly but also non toxic ? i am tempted to get a few boxes made up even at £2 a bang just for the hell of it so i can say i can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cervusman Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 Where do you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 In 5yrs I'll still be shooting the same subsonic as I do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 14/05/2020 at 23:37, lancer425 said: Look up metro gun, . https://www.metrogun.com/index.html Facebook pages and instagram Orion silencer and the metro barrels and extensions are quiet . there is data for subsonics Heavy Goose Federal 3" 12 Guage Hull Federal 209-A Primer 19 grs Alliant "Steel" Powder 1 1/4 oz. T Steel or other type of heavy, non-toxic shot 3" steel shot wad, or BP Pattern Driver MV 983 fps Pattern with Modified Choke: 89% @ 40 Yards Goose / Duck 2 3/4" Federal 12 Gauge Hull Federal 209-A Primer 20 grs Herco Powder 1 1/4 oz. T Steel(Goose) or BB Steel (Duck) MV 869 fps Pattern with Modified Choke: 91.8% @ 40 Yards New 20 Gauge Data (Use with Metro Gun 20 Gauge Adapter System) Federal 3" 20 Gauge Hull 209 Primer (Any) 12 grs Hodgdon "Longshot" Powder RS or any other steel shot wad Felt under shot wad, as required for correct crimp MV 887 fps Pattern with Modified Choke: 88% @ 40 yards IMPORTANT! All of these loads are reduced-powder charges that are enough to allow for changes in wad, shot type, and under shot wads to adjust for correct crimp levels. DO NOT exceed these powder amounts as it will greatly increase sound, and pressure will become unstable. Be sure you understand the principles of handloading before you attempt to reload any ammunition. Any deviation from these principles can result in SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH! . Am I missing something....Is the 20g data for steel or lead and do you know the weight ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, islandgun said: Am I missing something....Is the 20g data for steel or lead and do you know the weight ? Email brezney.! I guess it will be steel, and no packers are mentioned so it will be whatever you can get in the Wad. 20 to 23 grain at a guess sounds about right. But email him he might give you more data, the BP conundrum loads have subsonics as far as i remember, but they have removed many from the archives last year or so. Here i just had a run down nothing lept out at me. but have a close look . https://www.ballisticproducts.com/loadoftheweekarchive.htm Edited May 16, 2020 by lancer425 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, lancer425 said: Email brezney.! I guess it will be steel, and no packers are mentioned so it will be whatever you can get in the Wad. 20 to 23 grain at a guess sounds about right. But email him he might give you more data, the BP conundrum loads have subsonics as far as i remember, but they have removed many from the archives last year or so. Here i just had a run down nothing lept out at me. but have a close look . https://www.ballisticproducts.com/loadoftheweekarchive.htm cheers.. will have a look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, quentyn said: i am starting to think that there isnt an economic way of shooting subsonic non toxic ? does this mean in 5 years there wont be subsonic shotguns ? what do people do when they need to shoot quietly but also non toxic ? i am tempted to get a few boxes made up even at £2 a bang just for the hell of it so i can say i can Just buy some steel if you need to be fairly quiet. The factory 24gm 5s I used are fine, though they have a plastic wad. Are these for use in a hush power? Edited May 16, 2020 by motty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted May 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, motty said: Just buy some steel if you need to be fairly quiet. The factory 24gm 5s I used are fine, though they have a plastic wad. will steel have enough energy downrange subsonic to be effective ? if it does then a steel load with those fibre wadcups could be what i need ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 16, 2020 Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, quentyn said: will steel have enough energy downrange subsonic to be effective ? if it does then a steel load with those fibre wadcups could be what i need ? It all depends on shot size, your quarry, and how far you take your shots. Is this a moderated gun you are using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted May 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, motty said: It all depends on shot size, your quarry, and how far you take your shots. Is this a moderated gun you are using? yes it is, would like pigeons to 35 yds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 11 hours ago, quentyn said: yes it is, would like pigeons to 35 yds In that case, you could use factory 24gm 5s. They are plastic wad, and fairly cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quentyn Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Sorry I am being silly here, you mean subsonic steel? I have been told not to shoot plastic wads out of my gun as the barrels are ported along their length Can you even get subsonic steel ? Apologies I may be missing the point Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, quentyn said: Sorry I am being silly here, you mean subsonic steel? I have been told not to shoot plastic wads out of my gun as the barrels are ported along their length Can you even get subsonic steel ? Apologies I may be missing the point Q No, these are not subsonic steel. I know of someone that puts 3000 steel loads with plastic wad through their moderated 20 each year. He has had no problems. I have started putting steel through mine. The cartridges aren't silent, but quiet enough for me not to need ear protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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