Clay gun for game shooting?

[Presh]

Hi all.

 

Have £1500 to £2000 to spend on a new mid range clay gun but looking for something that will also not look too out of place on a game shoot. Obviously a 12 guage O/U would be best but I don't want something too 'exotic' and specific for clays. Have been looking at a Beretta 682 Gold E but not keen on the extended chokes although I could change for flush fitted and the plain action body. I would prefer if I could find a clay O/U but with a game or scroll engraving but not sure if this type of thing exists. Would appreciate any ideas / thoughts. Presh

[Mungler]

Depends....

 

If you are serious about the clays and will be doing that week to week all year then get a clay gun - £1500 will get you a second hand Blaser

 

If you do only the odd bit of game days then get a second hand £500 SBS - plenty around.

 

Reverse the mathematics to suit - if you do more game than clay.

 

Be a love and fill out your profile and your location, it makes the place more friendly.

[plinker]

you can get a browning 525 classic sporter(clay gun) with invector plus barrels and game scene engraving for around £1100 ,that fits the bill, look on guntrader for pics and prices or look at the beretta silver pigeon sporter if beretta are your thing.

plinker

[Presh]

Thanks for your thoughts Mungler. I know that the new Blaser F3 is the latest 'hot' clay gun but can I realistically use this on a game shoot. As you know, game is very traditional and the Blaser looks (to my mind) to be far too clinical and no where near traditional enough. Are you suggesting that £2K would afford a game scene Blaser? Sorry, but not sure what a 500 SBS is but interested to know. Any thoughts on a Beretta 682 Gold E? There seems to be a lot of people that shoot with these.

 

Just for you, have filled in as much of my profile as I can. Ta again. Presh

[pin]

682 is a good choice, garyb off here shoots a 30" example on the clays very well and it wouldn't look out of place on a formal driven day.

 

I have a basic 686 white onyx, it's inoffensive and plain and I am sure wouldn't raise blood pressure of the establishment if you showed up to a driven day with it. Depends on the shoot, some frown on an over/under B)

 

Just be sure you buy it for the thing you will do most, or consider a second hand game gun and get a cheaper clay gun. Ignore all this **** about blasers, they are for the essex mafia and it doesn't make them shoot any better

[pob]

Hi all.

 

Have £1500 to £2000 to spend on a new mid range clay gun but looking for something that will also not look too out of place on a game shoot. Obviously a 12 guage O/U would be best but I don't want something too 'exotic' and specific for clays. Have been looking at a Beretta 682 Gold E but not keen on the extended chokes although I could change for flush fitted and the plain action body. I would prefer if I could find a clay O/U but with a game or scroll engraving but not sure if this type of thing exists. Would appreciate any ideas / thoughts. Presh

 

What about this? http://www.clay-shooting.com/guntests/Bere...lverPigeonV.pdf

 

I have the 30" field version. I picked it up secondhand because the owner couldn't get on with it. So far neither can I, but then I'm a bad shot.

 

My pal has a Pigeon III sporter which he shoots very well; clays and quarry. I wish I'd gone for the sporter as it looks like a better all-rounder. Might be worth a look.

[Mungler]

Ignore all this **** about blasers, they are for the essex mafia and it doesn't make them shoot any better B)

 

 

You would have hoped that really wouldn't you

 

Have a go and see what you like - I am a Beretta fan but I tried a 686 Gold E and couldn't get on with it at all.

[pin]

 

For the record I picked up garyb's 682 and couldn't see the difference, point it right and it breaks/kills. Similarly he's used the 686 and gets on with that as well.

 

This whole gun thing, aside from fit, is a complete nonsense, all in your head. Some are better made of better metals and might last longer, but at the end of the day anything well made will do the same job B)

[garyb]

Tis true... I don't notice any difference in Pin's 686 to my 682...

 

Obviously buy the best you can afford or the wife will let you

 

Have you considered the weight of a Clay gun appose to a game gun ?

 

You might find walking round all day with a clay sporter leaves you with sore arms, as they are heavier than their game counterparts....

 

I brought a SP3 for walking around and this was one of the main reasons why.

[Presh]

Interesting reading and thanks all for your thoughts and comments. 'Pin' is probably right about gun fit being the most important issue and brand / style being secondary.

 

Will do far more clays than game so will have to put up with the extra weight of a 682 when stood in a field all day. Although in time I could just sweet-talk 'she who must be obeyed' and buy an AYA game gun as well but lets get the 682 first! Presh

[starlight32]

Just go for something with a wide raised rib.

 

It will give you more confidence in the field.

 

One bonus if you do buy a Blaser is you will recieve automatic membership of the 'Essex boys coffee club'. Which I am told is quite exclusive.

[MC]

 

For the record I picked up garyb's 682 and couldn't see the difference, point it right and it breaks/kills. Similarly he's used the 686 and gets on with that as well.

 

This whole gun thing, aside from fit, is a complete nonsense, all in your head. Some are better made of better metals and might last longer, but at the end of the day anything well made will do the same job

 

Pin,

 

you have just fallen into the big hole that unless you change your mind you will not get out of. As long as you believe it is nonsense you will stick at the level you are at now.

 

I thought the same as you until I shot Munglers F3, and now I have my own I am a firm believer. I have shot dozens probably hundreds of different shotguns especially when working with them and nothing comes close to a Blaser.

 

I shot Munglers 682E at lakenheath and it was all wrong, it fitted well enough it just felt wrong. The Blaser is technically perfect and balances so true.

 

It is definetly not a case of being a tackle tart and having to have the latest toy. Next time we shoot together try it for a whole round or two, not just a few shells and then go back to your Beretta. You will not believe the difference.

 

YOu have seen the advert where it says the triggers read your mind, well that may be nonsense but it certainly seems to be the case with the rest of the gun. It just seems to float in the air and go where you are looking.

 

The problem I have is I am not always looking in the right place.

 

Gun fit is only half the secret.

 

In answer to the first question the no a Blaser won't look out of place on a game shoot, I have used mine several times.

 

But the real answer is buy whatever you are happy with, whether that is a Beretta, Browning or Investarm.

 

Starlight,

 

You can join the Essex coffee circle whenever you like, we are not prejudice against the webbed feet brigade

[Wookie]

I'd be tempted to blow 1600 on a Silver Pigeon V... But that's just me. It seems to fit really well and comes up into my shoulder well. It also look gorgeous and that really awayed me!

 

The idea about buying two seperate guns seems to make a lot of sense though. A cheap SBS for game and then another OU for clays would mean the best of both worlds and for a grand on each (or thereabouts) I am sure you can get a cracking couple of guns.

[MC]

No, don't buy two guns you will never shoot well with both.

 

And remember a clean kill at game is far more important than breaking clays. By one decent 3" chambered over and under that you like and that feels right. Fitting can be done afterwards, the most important factor is that a gun that you like and that you want to use.

 

I have an F3 for clays and game and a beretta auto for wildfowling and I never shoot as well with the auto as I do with the Blaser. It just doesn't get used enough.

 

The feel and sight picture between a side by side and an over and under are completely different and a side by side is not really a serious consideration for clay shooting, you could do it but you will get knocked about.

[Presh]

Cheers Martin...good advice, makes sense to me. Presh

[pin]

Martin, wise words and all taken on board.

 

I will say this though.

 

I have shot with people who use all sorts of guns, from £100 specials to 12k Krieghoff's. One thing I will say for sure is that the quality of gun seems to make no difference to the shooter to be honest. There are some old boys who show up locally and are lethal on the clays with agricultural sbs's. I have also seen extremely good shots use extremely good guns, anyone sponsored by a gun maker will obviously have a good gun, they wouldn't have started with that brand though and wouldn't be shooting one unless it was free.

 

I am confident that my current plateau is 50% technique and 50% skill based. If the gun fits me I don't see a dammed thing that a blazer f3 can do that would be an advantage over my cheapo 686. Not one thing.

 

Unless you have some requirement from a gun which the current one can't provide (thicker/thinner rib, mid bead, no bead, different weight / balance) then I don't see what a blazer does that mine doesn't?

 

I am still new to this, and I absolutely recognise that I have it all to learn. I know some shooters who I will have to try damn hard to come close to in ability who shoot incredible scores with "old technology".

 

I've handled an F3 and unbeknown to you and Mungler I was about to chop the 686 in for one. They come to the shoulder lovely, they have incredible balance in longer barrel trim, almost defying physics as it is. I just don't like the finish, the quality is suspect given the raft of problems they have had with them and if you look there are literally hundreds for sale, which for a new to market gun speaks volumes to me.

[Catamong]

Pin,

 

Don't get too worried about the technical side of shotgun shooting - otherwise you'll be talking like a Yank and boring us all to tears with far too much techno stuff.

 

You already know the basics, gun fit is absolutely paramount - that gun MUST shoot exactly where you are pointing it, it doesn't matter whether it's a 26" sidelock side by side, or a 34" over & under Gamba, get that bit right and you're halfway there.

 

The other half is many years of experience, visiting as many grounds as you can, shooting as many different targets as you can, understanding where you went wrong on a particular stand and resolving not to repeat the error next time around, this all takes a lot of time, heartache, and money.

 

Chokes are another matter, I always advise newcomers to stick to open chokes, as you improve you can tighten up a tad to get those better quality breaks on longer targets.

 

I know you'll do it, 'cos you've got that burning desire to improve, just hang in there, shoot plenty of skeet, (which is excellent practice for Sporting), and you'll be up in AAA before too long.

 

Cat.

[the last engineer]

No, don't buy two guns you will never shoot well with both.

 

I have an F3 for clays and game and a beretta auto for wildfowling and I never shoot as well with the auto as I do with the Blaser. It just doesn't get used enough.

 

The feel and sight picture between a side by side and an over and under are completely different and a side by side is not really a serious consideration for clay shooting, you could do it but you will get knocked about.

 

I understand you comments Martin, but i'd like to add, having two guns is not intirley a bad thing, i use three on a " regular bassis, 2 (o/u) of which are extremely similar and one not(semi), i dont like the idea of marrying in to one gun, familiarity with different guns is good, competancy with them is better, regularity of use will see to it, i've seen a lot of guys go from one gun to another and fall apart, i beleive you mentioned Pin shooting a couple of rounds and not liking the gun, its the same as the guy who finaly sells or breaks his favorite gun, now shoot like a fish out of water with something "unfamiliar"

 

i have a range of guns from .410" through 12g on targets and 28g 20g 12g for birds, they all need a work out, as do i, i am a firm advocate of horses for cources on this, you dont want to lug an 8lb monster target gun around a field for huns or phesant, nor would you take a lightweight gun for 400 targets and knock your self silly.

 

 

i respect your experience Martin, as i hope you do mine, my comments are made through my own oservations and experiences, again this dosn't apply to everyone, i would only recomend shooting multiple guns seriously and not for the hell of it, one of them will be for dead quarry you hope and not runners, practice is good in the right arena.

 

Pin, if that Blazers about, id like to try my hand, failing that anything with a fairly straight set of tubes.

 

with respect, Martin................. the other one

[Wookie]

I think I just proved the "two seperate guns = bad" theory...

 

Went out today to the clay ground and decided to shoot my OU... First two stand saw me get a massive 5/20. I was pretty disgusted with myself and so I got out the Urika and immediately got an 8 and a 9. Ok, we had a good shot wth us (Kim Wan) an he was giving us loads of tips, but the Beretta is just a far better gun for me to shoot. In short, it works for me and I can see my future involving shooting a semi.

 

In some ways it's a shame as I really like the Laurona. It's very pointable, but I need to shoot game with it out on my permission and the Urika is going to get used for that. Also, the Urika handles the recoil much better and its extra weight makes me a lot smoother on the swing.

 

That's unless I sell both and do what SimonP did and buy a posh OU. I still like the Silver Pigeon V...

[MC]

TLE,

 

I have nothing but respect for yours or any one else'e experience, My comment were not meant to come accross as a Blaser is the only clay gun and everything else is rubbish.

 

Before my Blaser I had a Winchester Select which was barrel heavy and had trigger pulls like steel. The blaser is perfectly balanced and sweet triggers. My shooting has improved by an easy 25% since I have had it and got used to it.

 

I accept that it is not everyones cup of tea as it is plain action and quite boring to look at, but it does the job.

 

My comment to PIN about falling into the trap were meant as to say that gun fit is not the only criteria, balance and feel come into it as well. And you also have to like the gun.

 

I use a Blaser for all shooting with the exception of wildfowling where I use a Xtrema semi auto, up until the start of this season I was ready to chop the semi in for an O/U. I just couldn't shoot with it.

 

Just before this season started I used it for a couple of clay shoots, scoring 31/40 and 21/30 with it, so I decided to keep it. Last night I shot 3 greylag for 4 shots, 2 being a left and right (if you can call it that when you use a semi).

 

I believe that it has been a year of using the Blaser which handles fast which is the same as the semi that has helped. Whereas the season before I had spent a year shooting with a barrel heavy Winchester and then changed to a fast handling semi.

 

To coin a phrase "I couldn't hit a cow's **** with a banjo"

[Presh]

Hi all,

 

As the one that started the post I'm really chuffed at the quality and maturity of the debate. Have learned heaps and you've given me lots of stuff to think about so thanks guys........still buying a Beretta 682 though!

 

Presh

[the last engineer]

i hope i didnt sound condisending Martin, if i did my apols to you, i absolutly agree with you on the point of fit and feel, both are very real issues, i do have a couple of autos that dont realy fit, they are tighty righty , but they do feel right in my left hand , so work very well, my Brownings on the other hand are also right h'd stocks, but with a file and elbow grease they fit like a gloove, i took out the palm swells and re chequered, they are my main guns.

i guess i find myself in many lucky senarios where as i get to try out many new exciting guns, the ones i like i usualy get, others i have not even shot where they dont even feel right when you hold them, all personal choice right.

if your around when im over Martin, id love the opourtunity to shoot with you.

 

 

Martin

[Evil Elvis]

Presh,

i have shot all of the above and more.My advice is to try them all first, come and have a shoot with us essex mafia, mungler and matt will convert you im sure......your more than welcome to try my bettinsoli but its not in the same league.............

[pin]

If you do go bear in mind between them they have about a 40% stake in Blazer so beware

[ME]

If you do go bear in mind between them they have about a 40% stake in Blazer so beware

 

My shooting is improving now since I got my Blaser ( I beat Mung this morning ). I like the lightness and find I hit targets I never would have done with my Beretta 686.

 

IMO I cant see how you can get consistancy with 2-3 different guns.