Boxing,

[12gauge82]

2 minutes ago, serrac said:

Predictions for the rematch (assuming it happens)?
Repeat of last night or Joshua comes out with a new, better game plan like he did with Ruiz?
Personally I think repeat of last night, unfortunately - it's hard to knock out someone you can't hit...

I think it depends on how well he can adapt, his problem is his movement and always has been, if you can't move in and out of range we'll, your a big target and anyone who can beat you to the punch (like ruitz) or can out box you (like usyk) will win. Tough call, styles have always made fights which is why boxing is so exciting. 

[chrisjpainter]

33 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think it depends on how well he can adapt, his problem is his movement and always has been, if you can't move in and out of range we'll, your a big target and anyone who can beat you to the punch (like ruitz) or can out box you (like usyk) will win. Tough call, styles have always made fights which is why boxing is so exciting. 

I think Joshua will need to go back to type. There's no point trying to move and make himself light on his feet. He needs to go back to beating people up. Last night he got success by going to Usyk's body, but did it nowhere near enough and not in combination. Body shots sap the energy so much, but Usyk was never pressurised beyond single shots. 

Take the rematch clause and this time try and punch. 

What concerns me is the talk from the camp ringside during the fight tied in with the performance. It was all about staying patient and look to move. Next time go in with a game plan that suits the fighter you train...

[Gordon R]

Quote

Aj would destroy Ali, as would practically any top ten fighters today

I had to smile when I read this. Ali was a couple of stone down on Joshua or Fury, but had a better chin, faster hands and feet. He also had the ultimate boxing brain. If Usyk can beat Joshua, just how would Joshua destroy Ali?

Ali fought big punchers, Earnie Shavers (rated the hardest puncher in history), Al Blue Lewis, Joe Frazier, Cleveland Williams, George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Ron Lyle - any of whom could thrash today's top ten. Fury is the exception. Very big, quick hands and a decent brain.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Gordon R

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

I had to smile when I read this. Ali was a couple of stone down on Joshua or Fury, but had a better chin, faster hands and feet. He also had the ultimate boxing brain. If Usyk can beat Joshua, just how would Joshua destroy Ali?

Ali fought big punchers, Earnie Shavers (rated the hardest puncher in history), Al Blue Lewis, Joe Frazier, Cleveland Williams, George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Ron Lyle - any of whom could thrash today's top ten. Fury is the exception. Very big, quick hands and a decent brain.

Ali would be a cruiser weight by today's weight divisions. He wouldn't stand a cats chance in hell at any of today's decent heavy weights, sports move on and just like Allen wells wouldn't beat Usain Bolt at sprinting, a prime Ali of that era would fail miserably against today's heavyweights. Its common knowledge by anyone in the boxing game, many are just too polite to say it, as its seen as disrespectful and definitely unfair to compare eras. 

1 hour ago, chrisjpainter said:

I think Joshua will need to go back to type. There's no point trying to move and make himself light on his feet. He needs to go back to beating people up. Last night he got success by going to Usyk's body, but did it nowhere near enough and not in combination. Body shots sap the energy so much, but Usyk was never pressurised beyond single shots. 

Take the rematch clause and this time try and punch. 

What concerns me is the talk from the camp ringside during the fight tied in with the performance. It was all about staying patient and look to move. Next time go in with a game plan that suits the fighter you train...

Yep that's exactly how I see it, he tried to fight him at his own game and lost, which is unsurprising really. That said Usyk is exceptional and underrated, I'd have him in the top three pound for pound fighters out there all day. 

[ordnance]

No surprise, the lack of good heavy weights made him look better than he was. He wouldn't have lasted a round in with Tyson etc, even Frank Bruno would have hammered him. 

[Gordon R]

Quote

Ali would be a cruiser weight by today's weight divisions. He wouldn't stand a cats chance in hell at any of today's decent heavy weights, sports move on and just like Allen wells wouldn't beat Usain Bolt at sprinting, a prime Ali of that era would fail miserably against today's heavyweights. Its common knowledge by anyone in the boxing game

Struggling with your logic.

1. Firstly Alan Wells was never truly world class in his heyday.

2. Anyone in the "boxing game" knows that Joshua has just been beaten by a Cruiserweight. You clearly know more than Ring Magazine.

3. Cruiserweight limit is 14 stone 4 pounds. Ali weighed about one stone over that limit.

As for the lack of good heavyweights - o dear. In Ali's era there were some of the hardest punchers of all time - Cleveland Williams, Earnie Shavers, Ron Lyle.

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Gordon R

[12gauge82]

28 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Struggling with your logic.

1. Firstly Alan Wells was never truly world class in his heyday.

2. Anyone in the "boxing game" knows that Joshua has just been beaten by a Cruiserweight. You clearly know more than Ring Magazine.

3. Cruiserweight limit is 14 stone 4 pounds. Ali weighed about one stone over that limit.

As for the lack of good heavyweights - o dear. In Ali's era there were some of the hardest punchers of all time - Cleveland Williams, Earnie Shavers, Ron Lyle.

 

1 find a sprinter from the 70s or 80s that could beat or even challenge bolt then,take your pick!

2 no he hasn't, he weighed in at heavyweight without being out of shape. 

3 there was no cruiser weight in Alis day therefore there was no point him trying to make that weight but under todays standards he'd have been a prime candidate. 

4 I never said there was a lack of good heavyweights in Alis era, just that times move on, take any sport, you'd be very hard pressed to find someone setting a record in the 70s that hasn't been beaten several times by today, the only difference is in boxing you can't measure it with a stop watch, the fact is, A prime ali would have struggled with the likes of David haye, let alone an AJ, fury, or usyk (at cruiser but particularly at heavy) 

35 minutes ago, ordnance said:

No surprise, the lack of good heavy weights made him look better than he was. He wouldn't have lasted a round in with Tyson etc, even Frank Bruno would have hammered him. 

Wrong and I'm no AJ fan either

Edited September 26, 2021 by 12gauge82

[chrisjpainter]

20 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

1 find a sprinter from the 70s or 80s that could beat or even challenge bolt then,take your pick!

2 no he hasn't, he weighed in at heavyweight without being out of shape. 

3 there was no cruiser weight in Alis day therefore there was no point him trying to make that weight but under todays standards he'd have been a prime candidate. 

4 I never said there was a lack of good heavyweights in Alis era, just that times move on, take any sport, you'd be very hard pressed to find someone setting a record in the 70s that hasn't been beaten several times by today, the only difference is in boxing you can't measure it with a stop watch, the fact is, A prime ali would have struggled with the likes of David haye, let alone an AJ, fury, or usyk (at cruiser but particularly at heavy) 

Wrong and I'm no AJ fan either

Training techniques, muscle development, nutritional and dietary science all play into this. The only way to imagine it is doing an era notwithstanding comparison, or comparisons based not on physicality or engine room. I think that was my point with saying that Ali would have beaten Joshua - once you take out all the generational factors that would always give a modern fighter an insurmountable edge.

With the mental side of things there are certain athletes who can go mentally and emotionally far deeper than others, almost defying what should be physically possible by mentality alone, to block out the pain, or the exhaustion, or the opponent, or the situation in the pursuit of victory. AJ just ain't one of those athletes. 

[ordnance]

Quote

With the mental side of things there are certain athletes who can go mentally and emotionally far deeper than others, almost defying what should be physically possible by mentality alone, to block out the pain, or the exhaustion, or the opponent, or the situation in the pursuit of victory. AJ just ain't one of those athletes. 

Neither was Andy ruiz jr i would suggest, but he managed to destroy AJ. 

[12gauge82]

57 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Training techniques, muscle development, nutritional and dietary science all play into this. The only way to imagine it is doing an era notwithstanding comparison, or comparisons based not on physicality or engine room. I think that was my point with saying that Ali would have beaten Joshua - once you take out all the generational factors that would always give a modern fighter an insurmountable edge.

With the mental side of things there are certain athletes who can go mentally and emotionally far deeper than others, almost defying what should be physically possible by mentality alone, to block out the pain, or the exhaustion, or the opponent, or the situation in the pursuit of victory. AJ just ain't one of those athletes. 

Now most of that I can definitely agree with 👍

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

With the mental side of things there are certain athletes who can go mentally and emotionally far deeper than others, almost defying what should be physically possible by mentality alone, to block out the pain, or the exhaustion, or the opponent, or the situation in the pursuit of victory. AJ just ain't one of those athletes. 

That's it, a champion should have more in the tank, more drive to hold the title,  I wouldn't complain if AJ just used his size to batter his opponent,  I don't understand him not doing. 

He's made a fortune but is obviously not hungry enough to either put in the work or do what's needed in the ring, might as well retire with his health. 

[Mice!]

Is this picture an accurate representation or a funny angle?

It looks like a man fighting a boy!