Sellior and bellot

[ditchman]

i bought s&B in the early 70's when i was really strapped for cash ...............they were bloody awful....you got covered in dust when the wind blew into your face and out of 10 cartridges there would be 3 miss fires ...and when you opened the box of 10 they were stuck together with wax.............

and when you went shooting on a drizzly day you couldnt get the cartridges into the gun the next day.........utter carp

Edited September 28, 2022 by ditchman

[Walker570]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

i bought s&B in the early 70's when i was really strapped for cash ...............they were bloody awful....you got covered in dust when the wind blew into your face and out of 10 cartridges there would be 3 miss fires ...and when you opened the box of 10 they were stuck together with wax.............

and when you went shooting on a drizzly day you couldnt get the cartridges into the gun the next day.........utter carp

Yep, remember it well with loads of confetti blowing out.

[enfieldspares]

2 hours ago, ditchman said:

i bought s&B in the early 70's when i was really strapped for cash ...............they were bloody awful....you got covered in dust when the wind blew into your face and out of 10 cartridges there would be 3 miss fires ...and when you opened the box of 10 they were stuck together with wax.............

and when you went shooting on a drizzly day you couldnt get the cartridges into the gun the next day.........utter carp

My father used nothing else but 12 bore Sellier and Bellot Mark II (paper case, 65mm, crimp closure, 1 1/8 ounce of English #5) shooting at Woburn and Kedleston until he took to using a 20 bore and never complained. He could have afforded and used Eley (which he did in the 20 bore) so maybe his were kept better? For sure he never used Eley in his 12 bore. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by enfieldspares

[Minky]

On 16/07/2022 at 15:13, Sweet11-87 said:

in france you can get solognac cartridges from the big chain for 5 euros a box for 32g of 5s    works out after conversion at about £170 a thousand  so im still not buying the whole  price fo raw materials stuff were getting pulled to bits becasue the whole UK market is a racket.

gamebore  supply all the kent cartridges that use dimondshot from the shotdrop tower in the UK that are cheaper in the US than here.  so if raw materials are so expensive and hard to come by how are they managing to get enough of it, processing it and shipping a heavy metal across the atlantic to supply the whole of the US but were getting hit with price hikes of nearly 50% in 2 years?

i can still remember when eley olympic blues made in the uk were like 210 a thousand where as rio were making the same cartridge in spain and shipping it here and it was about 180 a tonne

 

 

 

it's just another case of rip off britain And everyone profiteering out of any situation.  How can any company ship stuff from far distant countries and yet stuff made 10 miles away is more expensive. Brexit, covid, Putin, the wind was going the other way..... whack the prices up.

On 12/09/2022 at 21:26, Walker570 said:

They where great at a wedding because of the shower of confetti which came out when fired.  I did shoot a fair few back when they first came on the market and a fair few pigeons did not like them.  Have not seen them used or advertised for many moons.

yeah I  think that they used scrap copies of Pravda the Russian newspaper as waddling.  Printed letters could be seen on the bits of waddling that came floating down on the wind along with dust and bits of gritty stuff that got  in your eyes.

On 14/07/2022 at 09:55, London Best said:

Dunno why, but S&B were the ONLY cartridges I have ever used that I could never hit anything with.

lead less cartridges again. I shot a few back in the day and overall they did the job,  if they had lead in them. Overall they weren't that bad and were a step up from the violent Baikals.

4 hours ago, ditchman said:

i bought s&B in the early 70's when i was really strapped for cash ...............they were bloody awful....you got covered in dust when the wind blew into your face and out of 10 cartridges there would be 3 miss fires ...and when you opened the box of 10 they were stuck together with wax.............

and when you went shooting on a drizzly day you couldnt get the cartridges into the gun the next day.........utter carp

A lot of the eastern European cartridges were like that back when.

[ditchman]

36 minutes ago, Minky said:

it's just another case of rip off britain And everyone profiteering out of any situation.  How can any company ship stuff from far distant countries and yet stuff made 10 miles away is more expensive. Brexit, covid, Putin, the wind was going the other way..... whack the prices up.

yeah I  think that they used scrap copies of Pravda the Russian newspaper as waddling.  Printed letters could be seen on the bits of waddling that came floating down on the wind along with dust and bits of gritty stuff that got  in your eyes.

lead less cartridges again. I shot a few back in the day and overall they did the job,  if they had lead in them. Overall they weren't that bad and were a step up from the violent Baikals.

A lot of the eastern European cartridges were like that back when.

there was another make of carp ammo i used at the same time ...they were sold in boxes of 10 as well....cant remember the name tho'

[Agriv8]

19 minutes ago, ditchman said:

there was another make of carp ammo i used at the same time ...they were sold in boxes of 10 as well....cant remember the name tho'

Now then ditchman are you referring to these fine specimens! Baikel

these particular ones have gone through 3 generations and remain unfired I recon there 45 to 50 years old.

I use one every so often down the clay ground even better if you can slip it into someone’s else’s gun un noticed!

A 3 foot flame - black powder smoke screen and barrel residue that was like tar !

I can send you some ? You close to sandringham ?

Agriv8

[ditchman]

flames and soot ...what more could a boy want............keep them ...i handed my certificate and liecence back in last september....so im gunless now...just havnt the strength to throw them around any more...anno domini....and poor health......

[Minky]

I had been given A 10 pack of Baikals.  They were pink plastic case.  I had heard the rumours about Baikals.  I compared them with grand prix in my AyA 25bl.  They were different to the grand prix but were good.   SO   A mate and  I  bought 500 Winchester GB and 500 Baikals..  They were a  black plastic case.  Holee moley !!  They were like loaded with half a pound of anti tank gun shell powder.  There was a BIG pink flash shaped like a candle flame about 2ft long.  A muzzle bang like an anti tank gun.  Ringing ears, smoke, debris on the wind.  I was pushed violently back.  I couldn't shoot them SO I  swapped them with my mate for his 250 winchester GB's.  He used themin his Frachi 5shot auto.  He loved them.  He could take the highest pigeon that was up there on oxygen and passing jumbo jets needed to be wary. Everyone for half a mile radius knew when he was out pigeon roosting and fighting. They were cheap and came in wooden crates like a coffin.

[Agriv8]

Got some of the pink plastic ones but they in a safe some where else I think !

as mentioned the ones above where my grandads and as a tight Yorkshire farmer never threw anything away. 

my dad surrendered his license a year or two back old age and shoulder troubles so his guns and cartridges ended up with me ( they were all dual licences ) 

Fired some 40 year old eleys the other day old alpha max iirc the smell took me instantly back 45 years - standing next to my grandad corner of a field ( my official job was holding his tobacco pipe when he took a shot ) . 

Agriv8

 

[Agriv8]

19 hours ago, Minky said:

I had been given A 10 pack of Baikals.  They were pink plastic case.  I had heard the rumours about Baikals.  I compared them with grand prix in my AyA 25bl.  They were different to the grand prix but were good.   SO   A mate and  I  bought 500 Winchester GB and 500 Baikals..  They were a  black plastic case.  Holee moley !!  They were like loaded with half a pound of anti tank gun shell powder.  There was a BIG pink flash shaped like a candle flame about 2ft long.  A muzzle bang like an anti tank gun.  Ringing ears, smoke, debris on the wind.  I was pushed violently back.  I couldn't shoot them SO I  swapped them with my mate for his 250 winchester GB's.  He used themin his Frachi 5shot auto.  He loved them.  He could take the highest pigeon that was up there on oxygen and passing jumbo jets needed to be wary. Everyone for half a mile radius knew when he was out pigeon roosting and fighting. They were cheap and came in wooden crates like a coffin.

Here the pink ones kicked like a mule again a few years old

The high impress right the other 2 erm no

[Minky]

Ahh. Spaniel. Avin a snooze after an afternoons walk.  Look exactly the same as mine that I lost last December.  Still haven't gotten over her passing.  Cartridges. .. yes; their the ones that I was given a split pack of.  I'm sure that there were 10 of them. Note the larger primer market Azot or something.  Those ones shot well in my lightweight AyA 25 Box lock.  I shot grind prix out of one barrel and tried the pinkie out of the other barrel to compair the cartridges.  Not the meerkats.   The two were different.  The grand prix were a fairly sharp crack whereas The Baikals were more like a black powder sort of whoop with a steady push sort of felt recoil.  Both cartridges performed well and both killed about the same.  But when we got the black cased Baikals they were the ones of legend.  Shaking guns to pieces, killing at extreme... "I say"  EXTREME range and being banned from shooting grounds. And dare I say it "kicking like mules".  Lads and men we feared of them and many put òff picking up a gun again after shootin a Baikal. Cartridges for men using 5 shot  frachi long recoil autos. Obviously not for me with an AyA 25. 😊

Edited September 29, 2022 by Minky

[Agriv8]

I never shot the black baikals suspect they were too costly for tight Yorkshire men. My grandad shot eleys for game but these were the vermin shell if I remember correctly.
 

Sorry about the loss of your companion - yup she’d just had her walk and learnt that stayin close to the cartridges means i may not forget her if I am going shooting

her other trick includes finding lost cases when ejected from the semi auto into the long grass when on the gease ! though her current party peace is to retrieve  a rolled up live hedgehog and bring it to me !

she’s a complete loon and my companion and shadow - not the world best gun dog and will never progress to being a peg dog - but when we are out beating she’s not too shabby 

Think she’s telling me it’s time for breakfast 

Note the retrieved pants and socks !

 

10 hours ago, Minky said:

Ahh. Spaniel. Avin a snooze after an afternoons walk.  Look exactly the same as mine that I lost last December.  Still haven't gotten over her passing.  Cartridges. .. yes; their the ones that I was given a split pack of.  I'm sure that there were 10 of them. Note the larger primer market Azot or something.  Those ones shot well in my lightweight AyA 25 Box lock.  I shot grind prix out of one barrel and tried the pinkie out of the other barrel to compair the cartridges.  Not the meerkats.   The two were different.  The grand prix were a fairly sharp crack whereas The Baikals were more like a black powder sort of whoop with a steady push sort of felt recoil.  Both cartridges performed well and both killed about the same.  But when we got the black cased Baikals they were the ones of legend.  Shaking guns to pieces, killing at extreme... "I say"  EXTREME range and being banned from shooting grounds. And dare I say it "kicking like mules".  Lads and men we feared of them and many put òff picking up a gun again after shootin a Baikal. Cartridges for men using 5 shot  frachi long recoil autos. Obviously not for me with an AyA 25. 😊

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Agriv8

[Minky]

6 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

I never shot the black baikals suspect they were too costly for tight Yorkshire men. My grandad shot eleys for game but these were the vermin shell if I remember correctly.
 

Sorry about the loss of your companion - yup she’d just had her walk and learnt that stayin close to the cartridges means i may not forget her if I am going shooting

her other trick includes finding lost cases when ejected from the semi auto into the long grass when on the gease ! though her current party peace is to retrieve  a rolled up live hedgehog and bring it to me !

she’s a complete loon and my companion and shadow - not the world best gun dog and will never progress to being a peg dog - but when we are out beating she’s not too shabby 

Think she’s telling me it’s time for breakfast 

Note the retrieved pants and socks !

 

 

That's what makes my loss so deep.  Are they two different dogs.?  One looks liver & white and the other. looks black & white or is it just the light levels that make her look different.  The socks thing.  When both of my spaniels were younger they used to play up and not bring things back.  Currently one of my daughters has a Cocker bitch about 7 months old.  Occasionally if she has to go out for some time and cant take the dog with her she brings it to us to "hound sit" It's a Beautiful dog but the little devil has the habit of collecting up things and going out into the back garden and chewing.  It could be a sock or the other day I thought "that dog is being quiet". I went out and there was bits of plastic bag on the grass.  She had picked up a memory stick from the bay window seat near where the computer is, and taken the bag + stick outing the back garden and chewed it up.  luckily she hadn't chewed the stick.  The sound bar controller has a few teeth marks on it.  She likes to lay up on the bay window shelf with views out front across the garden and road.  If a dog goes past she will low growl/grumble at them.  we have put a plastic Dust bin lid in the flower bed just in front of the bay window as a bird drinker and we get a lot of pigeons come down to drink and bathe.  Hours of entertainment for a dog.  Although she is still a puppy she retrieves things well but if it is something that she shouldn't have she will not bring it back or drop it.  such as dog poo bags and dead birds or similar.

[Agriv8]

Same dog just the lighting  - anyone with more than one sproker in there life has a stronger will power than me ! just a trick of the light you daughters dog is stunning 7 months is very young - My Pip only started to mature at 18 months and still at 3 retunes to her 'youth' without warning !!

 

Agriv8