Load Shedding is coming (probably), how will you prepare?

[bluesj]

7 hours ago, serrac said:

Just wondering, is it feasible to run a generator and connect the output to a domestic circuit to power the fridge/freezer and central heating controller etc?  I guess one might want to isolate from the grid to avoid trying to power up everything south of the substation, but what are the other implications of trying to do this?

If the generator is big enough to run the house you would need a changeover switch of some sort, if its not big enough then better just to plug in what is going to be powered or as ditchman said you will need a generator circuit and a change over switch on that.

[serrac]

2 hours ago, bluesj said:

If the generator is big enough to run the house you would need a changeover switch of some sort, if its not big enough then better just to plug in what is going to be powered or as ditchman said you will need a generator circuit and a change over switch on that.

Thanks guys.
Looks like it would be a bit more complicated and costly than I'd hoped.
Plugging essential appliances into the generator would be fine but the central heating electrical gubbins would be more of a challenge since that's hardwired into the mains circuit.

[JohnfromUK]

The likelihood is that IF there are any planned cuts due to shortage of capacity, they will initially be by 'agreement' with big users (i.e. industry).  If it follows previous load shedding type cuts any actual 'cuts' to consumers are done on a schedule so that you know when you are at risk of a cut  and are for a maximum duration (I think it was 3 hour blocks last time), so that most people can plan ahead (e.g. fill a Thermos, warm the house, schedule the hot meal to avoid the potential cut time, not be doing anything 'critical' like computer updates(!)).

Typically the cuts are shorter than normal winter storm damage cuts can be - and you get advance notice.  Fridges and freezers are fine for many hours and the only real 'high risks' are to those who need electricity for medical reasons, disability aids etc.

Having a wired in generator is expensive and unless you have a real need - falls (in my opinion) very much in the desirable but far from essential category.

My late father had a Lister diesel generator fully wired, and I think it was only used about 10 times in 30 years.  Keeping it in good condition, the fuel reasonably 'fresh', periodic oil changes and particularly keeping it's battery charged and ready (the battery was essential for the alternator operation, the engine could be hand started) were a lot of work for something so rarely used.

[udderlyoffroad]

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The likelihood is that IF there are any planned cuts due to shortage of capacity, they will initially be by 'agreement' with big users (i.e. industry).

Already happening.

I don't think people appreciate quite how up a creek we are with the domestic generation shortfall situation in this country.

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

If it follows previous load shedding type cuts any actual 'cuts' to consumers are done on a schedule so that you know when you are at risk of a cut  and are for a maximum duration (I think it was 3 hour blocks last time), so that most people can plan ahead (e.g. fill a Thermos, warm the house, schedule the hot meal to avoid the potential cut time, not be doing anything 'critical' like computer updates(!)).

My experience in South Africa was that the 'app' would alert you to impending load shedding later in the day.  It was not as planned in advance as I understand the Winter of Discontent was.  Might not be quite as easy to schedule a hot meal round that if you're out working, kids at school etc.  Fine if you're retired though.

 

2 hours ago, serrac said:

Thanks guys.
Looks like it would be a bit more complicated and costly than I'd hoped.

 

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Having a wired in generator is expensive and unless you have a real need - falls (in my opinion) very much in the desirable but far from essential category.

I would tend to agree.  My house is in need of a full rewire anyway, so a generator transfer switch will add little to the material costs (have you seen the price of copper recently?).  But, the reason I'm putting one in has more to do with living rurally, and storm-related disruptions to supply, such as the 36-odd hours we experienced back in february.  Even then, I'm only planning on running the generator for a couple of hours a day to 'charge' the freezers.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I would tend to agree.  My house is in need of a full rewire anyway, so a generator transfer switch will add little to the material costs (have you seen the price of copper recently?).  But, the reason I'm putting one in has more to do with living rurally, and storm-related disruptions to supply, such as the 36-odd hours we experienced back in february.  Even then, I'm only planning on running the generator for a couple of hours a day to 'charge' the freezers.

I fully rewired about 5 year ago and could have had my late father's Lister diesel generator - but decided not to.  Reasons - partly as above in the maintenance burden, and partly that despite being very rural, the supply (since all the cables have been replaced and partly underground) both MUCH more reliable and any cuts we do get have been short duration.

Unless you are putting in a big generator, I would consider a separate ring that can be switched across.  If you use a wired in changeover for the whole house, it is very easy for someone (other family member) to accidentally turn on a high load and cause a problem.  The generator switchable circuit can do fridges, freezers, boiler, some IT if you feel so inclined etc., but not cookers, showers, water heating etc.  If it is a reasonable sized generator, you could consider having the lighting rings switchable.  Depends on what you want really.

 

[udderlyoffroad]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

partly that despite being very rural, the supply (since all the cables have been replaced and partly underground) both MUCH more reliable and any cuts we do get have been short duration.

Indeed, as I say the storms earlier this year caused a lot of damage to overhead lines and we were without supply for 36hrs.  And apparently, not uncommon.  Our little village is, necessarily further down the priority list than others, and whilst Western Power doubtless were working round the clock, I don't want to find myself in that situation agaiin.

My generator is used 'elsewhere' thoughout the year, so is maintained as a piece of kit in the business like any other. 

 

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I would consider a separate ring that can be switched across.  If you use a wired in changeover for the whole house, it is very easy for someone (other family member) to accidentally turn on a high load and cause a problem.  The generator switchable circuit can do fridges, freezers, boiler, some IT if you feel so inclined etc., but not cookers, showers, water heating etc.  If it is a reasonable sized generator, you could consider having the lighting rings switchable. 

Absolutely, this requires some consideration and suitable circuit design.  Lighting, in these days of LED will not be an issue, I suspect I could have every light on in the house and it wouldn't be drawing 100 W.  There will be no 'ring' circuits going anywhere near this house, as it's 2022 (although copper price shortages....). 

However I still see a generator tripping out if someone turns on the cooker as the lesser of two evils compared to extension leads snaking everywhere and small children, so am inclined to have the entire board hanging directly off the transfer switch.

 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

am inclined to have the entire board hanging directly off the transfer switch.

That is how my father's house was done, but he had gas heating and hob - and well understood not to use the oven toaster or kettle.  It is more risky if you have things like hidden 'instant' water heaters under cloakroom basins etc as out of site is out of mind.

[Remimax]

Always wondered if anyone's ever got hurt but some old flat capper plugging in his generator using a suicide lead and not isolating the incoming supply of the property.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Remimax

[bluesj]

5 hours ago, Remimax said:

Always wondered if anyone's ever got hurt but some old flat capper plugging in his generator using a suicide lead and not isolating the incoming supply of the property.

Yes would be the answer, I had a belt from a back fed supply.

I had a building switched and locked off but some clever **** had a spur of the main building that was unknown to any one but him, when the power went of he plugged a generator in to one of the wall socket! Imagine my surprise when a switch  i was working on and had tested suddenly became live!🤬

[Remimax]

3 hours ago, bluesj said:

Yes would be the answer, I had a belt from a back fed supply.

I had a building switched and locked off but some clever **** had a spur of the main building that was unknown to any one but him, when the power went of he plugged a generator in to one of the wall socket! Imagine my surprise when a switch  i was working on and had tested suddenly became live!🤬

was thinking more of a linesman working on a downed overhead  but just goes to show! scary stuff.

[JohnfromUK]

Switzerland is pulling out the stops https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11189267/Switzerland-considers-JAILING-heat-rooms-19C-country-forced-ration-gas.html

[udderlyoffroad]

31 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Switzerland is pulling out the stops https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11189267/Switzerland-considers-JAILING-heat-rooms-19C-country-forced-ration-gas.html

The Daily Mail cites as its source an article from the Blick; which is...uh, Switzerland's answer to the The Sun newspaper, with quality of journalism to match.

However, seems the UK Police chiefs association should take note of a dangerously sensible approach recommended by a senior Swiss copper:

Quote

Advising the government, the report states that senior police officer Fredy Fassler has told them to 'only order measures that can be implemented, and above all, controlled.'  

And he has said that the proposed new measures should be implemented with a 'sense of proportion', emphasising that he does not think police should go from door to door. 

Mr Fassler used the COVID-19 pandemic as an example, stating according to the report that there had been a 'culture of denunciation.'

Basically; "allow us to concentrate on actual crimes".  What refreshing thinking.

[bluesj]

Just seen a youtube video by a British woman living in France, she was saying that they have be told officially to expect energy rationing this winter. 

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, bluesj said:

she was saying that they have be told officially to expect energy rationing this winter. 

It's interesting that the official line from the UK government is still that they've ruled out energy rationing for domestic customers.  Like they have a choice.  Benefit of the doubt, Truss had barely got her stuff moved in before the Queen departed this earth, so let's see what happens shortly.