udderlyoffroad

No. It's not about recognition, and we do need be more vocal about what we do, yes. You seem far more into generational divides than me - nobody is suggesting you become an social medjia (sic) influencer, but at least tell us it happened. Lead by example and all that. Actually I said the biggest lesson from Dunblane, was united we stand, divide we fall. You asked whether it would've made a difference. I agree that it likely wouldn't have made much of a difference, not that we're ever told what-ifs, but that doesn't somehow invalidate lesson on the need to present a united front. But that's the second what-if you've presented, the other being the 'Leadxit' referendum that didn't happen. I don't think discussing either gets us much further forward, to be honest.

The same data as all those screaming on here that because the orgs came out with a voluntary transition, the HSE fired up the ban machine. Nobody has even attempted, in 7 pages of this thread, or any other, to back that assertion up with data. But seemingly it must be true. Because there's always nothing but the sound of crickets when people (not just me) ask what they've done other than moan. The loudest voices on here are the usual keyboard warriors, who do nothing pro-active. If you wish to disagree with this basic truism of the internet, go right ahead. For the record, very happy to be proved wrong on this with a flood of posts of people telling us what they've done. Tell me you don't understand the phrase 'precautionary principle' without telling me... You like me have no idea how old posters are. My problem is people hell bent on looking backwards and unwillingness to engage with the realpolitik of 2024, not 1974. If you think that's a generational thing, then so be it. I think it's another manifestation of the false nostalgia we see so often on here, which in my experience isn't necessarily a function of age. And I get it, the whole point of shooting for me is to get away from 'life' for a bit. Countryside walk with a gun and the mongrel, get some dinner. Or play at being gamekeeper at our syndicate. But I also don't feel the need to do it whilst denying the world is changing.

We'll never know of course, as we are not told What-ifs. You think that it would've been a thumping victory for for pro-lead. However, I reckon the response from the loudest voices on here would've been a shrug of the shoulders before the fact (convinced of victory), and much screeching afterwards, a la Brexit. You mean apart from to be ready for it? I'm sorry, but I just don't agree the org's voluntary transition begat the HSE's proposal, if anything it was the other way round. Just look at all the other things banned on the precautionary principle within the last 30yrs, and wait for the coming tsunami on PFAS. 'HSE to ban non-stick frying pans' may well be a headline we read soon. Eh? How is that relevant? The lesson is we barely got our message out because of all the "I'm alright Jack"-ism and "not our sort" from certain members of the community. Whether that would've made a difference does not obviate the fact that internal bickering gets us nowhere and people should move on, and stand united. Oh come on Rewulf, from our previous correspondence, I know that you are the honourable exception. But there's hardly a rush of posts on here telling me I'm wrong, that they've taken kids shooting, written to their MPs, grilled their PCC candidates etc. Or at least not within the past decade.

It's weird isn't it, there's a vocal minority on here screaming about how BASC have screwed us all and there's no future for shooting, are seemingly lacking completely in self-awareness. Invariably, these people do nothing for the future of shooting. Or when pressed, they witter on about what they did in the run up to the pistol ban*, a whole quarter of a century ago. What have you done *this* decade? <crickets>. BASC's voluntary transition announcement was nearly 5 years ago. Whilst I agree it was, to put it politely, poorly communicated, it really is high time people moved on. But no, according to some on here, BASC should prostrate themselves declaring they were absolutely wrong, should've listened to the wise owls at the self-elected PW-council, and whilst they are at it, change the name back to WAGBI and send all of its members a proper tie. It really will get us nowhere. And if anyone is still labouring under the delusion that BASC's voluntary transition somehow begat the HSE's proposed ban**, I've got news for you: The HSE neither noticed nor cared. They are operating on the precautionary principle and would rather be in lock-step with, or go even further than, EU REACH if at all possible. The machinations of shooting organisations are a gross irrelevance to them. Righto, I'm off to go put the tools in my truck for a work party tomorrow at our DIY syndicate. Assuming their parents turn up, there'll be a couple of teenagers there, putting a shift in. *Funnily enough these same people apparently didn't learn the biggest lesson from the pistol ban, viz. United we stand, divided we fall. **Or worse, conflate the two, whether deliberately or because they are a bit dim

Christ on a combine. 6 pages of invective, bile, personal insults and attempted gotcha-ing of the laziest variety as practiced by Sky/BBC journalists. I managed to listen to the podcast, over several short-ish journies in the car. No it wasn't a Today programme-style political interview. Podcasts generally aren't. They are long-form chats, where if you are trying to get something out of an interviewee, you are pursuing the 'catch more flies with honey than vinegar' strategy. No the 2 interviewers didn't push back enough on some of the BASC rep's statements IMO, especially on the market providing affordable alternatives that are both non-tox and single use plastic free. And by that I don't mean the 3 people who shoot 28 gauge 2 3/64" inch cartridges, I mean pigeon loads in 20 bore, or any load in .410. But some of the complaints on this thread are just downright bizarre: The interviewee, being from Essex, using 'estuary English', as oppsoed to, presumably RP? Whatevvvva, mate. Someone picked him up on the use of the term 'soft iron' - I'm no metallurgist, but I'm lead to believe that indeed, 'steel shot' is closer to soft iron in terms of its crystalline structure and/or chemical composition. I'm not sure he said anything factually incorrect about lead waterpipes either, if anything I think he downplayed how many lead water pipes are still installed in peoples' houses. Potentially. Because of course no-one knows the true figure. And I'm sorry, but coming on this thread to say you don't "do" podcasts is a waste of everyone's time. But of course all of this is entirely within BASC's remit as they had total editorial control of this third party podcast, right? Right? Anyway, it seems I've discovered another shooting-related podcast. Beats listening to the inane celebrity-based drivel on the radio.

I've just read that article, what a ridiculous mess. Totally unnecessary, and introduced by a Tory Chancellor (one R Sunak). Unsurprisingly, the costs have been passed straight on to the consumer - e.g. in construction. Then, the same genius wonders why inflation is so high. Not since the tax situation for those with buy-to-lets has there been such a spectacular own-goal, that's ended up costing everyone more, and resulted in lost tax revenue. Oh no, wait, IR 35. This deliberate conflation between avoidance between evasion, implying some form of moral superiority, is frankly a level of debate I'd expect on the BBC.

How about, all this ridiculous bureaucracy created by the new red diesel rules probably costs more to administer than it makes in revenue? In fact, at one point HMRC even claimed this themselves when the EU wanted to take away red diesel for pleasure craft. So the EU took HMRC to the european court...and won! Costing tax payers millions as the supra-national unaccountable organisation fought with the national unaccountable one. It was at this point, personally, that I 'checked out' of the EU.

Yes, way overdue these things were retired. Orr, at £0 cost to the taxpayer, the matrix signs permanently 'X'd out what should be the hard shoulder, regardless of traffic conditions. But that would be too sensible.

Third dibs, please, in the unlikely event the previous 2 posters fall through.

Probe needs quite a firm push to seat home in my experience. Also check o rings aren’t nicked or damaged at all.

I had a 308; cheapest car I ever ran and no issues other than it seemed to pop nearside headlight lamps for a past time. HDi engine in it seemed to be ok for an econobox, not exactly fast but sipped fuel and working aircon was a first for me. Sold the vehicle to my ex who as far as I know is still running it. Remember the youngest 207 is now 10 years old. Incidentally, what do we mean by 'Japanese made' exactly? Thanks to the EU's import tariffs, most Japanese brands manufacture in Europe.

I'm not going to explain the nothing to hide logical fallacy to you, you have an internet connection. You also presumably have curtains on your windows? You've got nothing to hide, so why would you need curtains on your windows? Just because domestic abuse is abhorrent, it doesn't make this measure sensible, proportionate or immune from abuse.

And yet you still typed the previous 2 sentences. The nothing to hide...trope has been demonstrated to be a fallacy so many times that invoking it should only be done with recourse to sarcasm or irony. This is latest genius idea from Gwent is firmly in the 'backside covering' school of initiatives , and will likely help no-one. What did your organisation say to when you told them about this doozy? That cannot be official, public policy, surely?

My the glass really is half empty for you isn't it? Why not go the whole hog and just surrender your ticket as it'll be worthless when they ban shooting? I don't look at my guns as some sort of capital assets, they are tools, and if a £150-odd .410 is worth £0 after an ill-advised ban, so be it.

The simple TL:DR is: People regularly conflate The Shooting Org's proposed voluntary 5 year transition away from lead, with the UK HSE consulting on banning lead. Sentences such as this don't help: So, to be clear, we are about halfway through the voluntary transition, and the HSE is reviewing responses to a second consultation. No ban, or even proposed date for a ban exists yet. The fact that some people argue that BASC and the other org's (admittedly dreadfully communicated) voluntary transition begat the ban, or whether it was an attempt to get ahead of any ban, is much debated on forums, but ultimately academic. Chicken/egg, post hoc ergo propter hoc, etc. Zoom out a little, countries such as Denmark have phased out lead. The EU is conducting a similar consultation to the UK HSE on banning lead, though at the European level they are more...susceptible to lobbying, shall we say, than the UK HSE is. My advice, buy a .410 - albeit possibly not an expensive one, buy carts in quantity and have fun. Life's too short. Why on earth not?

Who wants to tell him?

Anyone got any ideas on how to stop YouTube ads on a Smart TV? All the ad blockers mentioned so far appear to be for those watching on a PC.

It would make more sense to be able to enter the information online yourself and not worry too much about the paper version. Database needs to be accurate, not the piece of paper you hold. I know the law, written prior to the modern internet, does not agree, but I can dream.

Defintely sounds like the kind of thing. Will PM you

Indeed, I confess I don't understand the pessimism on here. Plenty of young folk taking up shooting according to my social media, not to mention my on my straw baler and DIY syndicate. If the only media you consume is broadcast TV news, and are at your local clay ground mid-week, then unsurprisingly you're not going to see young shooters. And yet still, for all the times you've reposted it, you still don't understand BASC didn't call for a ban. Albeit, their PR was atrocious, as you and many others still think a call for a voluntary transition over 5 years amounts to calling for a ban. I'm not entirely sure how one of the value of a high end marque UK gun is any sort of indicator of the future of shooting as a sport either. Those top end guns were only ever coveted by a small minority of shooters, most of which are firmly in the 'boomer' generation (or older) and thus the market is inevitably shrinking. So yes, stop re-posting this. If you have your guns as some sort of capital investment, then now would be a bad time to sell. If you have them to use and enjoy, stick with them. Have you got a source you could provide a link to, to back up that assertion?

Indeed, I'm not even sure the SGC is in 2 parts per se. Certainly not my experience. A reprint is a reprint. And the definition of a few days is....variable, last time I requested one it took them 2.5 weeks

Just a warning some RFD’s might refuse to do this, Holts wouldn’t when I was in the same situation. As I posted elsewhere, the important thing is notifying the police (preferably using the online form) ASAP. What’s written on your certificate must match their records but is of secondary importance. Also, were you not mid-renewal, the answer would be to call the licensing team and request a re-print, explaining your certificate table is full. But personally I’d do as advised.

Long shot I know, but is anyone looking to move on a larger (6 gun or greater) cabinet on in the Somerset/Devon/Bristol area? Obviously would be willing to collect, not going to make you try to ship it!

When you tell your local force you sold/given a gun, the system will generate a reference number for you. The Avon and Somerset system will even generate a little PDF for you of the details to download and keep. Your force my vary, of course. This is why I tell people to use the online form as opposed to letter or sending an email. You get a reference number at the end of a (nominally) completed process. Unlike say an email, which is sent in plain text (readable by anyone in the middle), and disappears into a black hole. As for letters, plenty of threads on that. Rebel without a cause, me. But the wonderful thing about pencils is, you can use an eraser. If we're brutally honest, in 2024, what's written on your certificate is of secondary importance to what the NFLMS database thinks you have.

And you sir are why I'll be working till my 80s, and you're probably retired. Honestly would never have occurred to me, nor would I have considered it worth my time. Which, for anyone below the age of 50, is a bit like asking them to boycott the milliners, the milkman or the dry cleaners. It doesn't figure on their radar, it isn't used. PO's will disappear. Signed for/Special delivery or whatever is pointless, and as for sending packages there's a whole host of options. Including your postman (so Royal Mail rather than the post office) collecting them from your doorstep. I mean, any excuse for a pint and all, but what fiendishly complex task were you trying to entrust your local PO with? Reminds me of this