Gun reforms

[wymberley]

7 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Hi Wimbey, thanks for that. While your angles of thought are interesting, I was picking up on a point made above - saving the 410 by adopting New Zealand’s approach. Perhaps there is hope….?!

Cheers,

If common sense has owt to do with it we'd be in with a chance.

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Fellside said:

Hello Conor,

I have been reading this thread with interest, and without joining in the frenzy of BASC bashing, would like to emphasise support for the New Zealand approach. In particular their evaluation of the 410 and its vital supply of lead ammunition to support youth entry in to shooting. New Zealand is a well respected democracy and their evidence based approach to ammunition has been pragmatic and unsullied by political posturing. A derogation of this kind - and not the proposed extended stay of execution - should be pursued by BASC et al with great vigour and determination!! Surely there is a deal to be done. 

I totally understand your point of view, but this issue has nothing to do with ( as Wymberley hopes ) common sense or anything else other than a politically driven agenda. 
As the owner of a .22rf and air rifle I would be cockahoop if exemptions were made for certain firearms, but lead is either toxic or it isn’t, and we can’t have it both ways. 
New Zealand, like many other countries, has a tradition of hunting undertaken by the general public, the UK doesn’t, and never has. 
The cartridge manufacturers need to develop effective loads and projectiles for minority calibres, as even though they are in a minority compared to such as 12 bore, their use must surely be too significant to be dismissible? 

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Smudger687 thanks for the explanation and that conversation you have summarised is not why nine countryside organisations started encouraging a voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting 3 years ago. That is explained in the announcement that was made back then and some added insight was provided in a Q&A at the 2020 BASC AGM - all this is discussed in the other thread. That said, if you could DM me more details about your conversation I will look into it and come back to you. 

@enfieldspares @Fellside I hear what you are saying and mindful of what @Scully has commented and there is another HSE consultation to come and thereafter recommendations to Secretary of State so lot's more discussion ahead - with legislative proposals, if drafted, further down the line.

As regards the OP, these are very challenging times, and to underline that the following articles in the national press where BASC has been quoted may be of interest.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/21/shooting-groups-reject-call-for-firearms-law-change-in-england-and-wales

https://basc.org.uk/police-temporary-permit-reliance-raised-in-the-times/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/24/uk-shooting-lobby-ready-to-resist-stricter-shotgun-licensing

Also, for those that have not read it from this thread, BASC's statement following the conclusion of the inquests is here:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-statement-on-iopc-report-into-keyham-shootings/
 

[Fellside]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

I totally understand your point of view, but this issue has nothing to do with ( as Wymberley hopes ) common sense or anything else other than a politically driven agenda. 
As the owner of a .22rf and air rifle I would be cockahoop if exemptions were made for certain firearms, but lead is either toxic or it isn’t, and we can’t have it both ways. 
New Zealand, like many other countries, has a tradition of hunting undertaken by the general public, the UK doesn’t, and never has. 
The cartridge manufacturers need to develop effective loads and projectiles for minority calibres, as even though they are in a minority compared to such as 12 bore, their use must surely be too significant to be dismissible? 

 

Unfortunately there isn’t an effective alternative for the 410 - other than horrendously expensive Bismuth or Tungsten. The use of these expensive heavy metals would preclude most youth access via the 410 route. Steel pellets large enough to be practical just aren’t feasible in this diminutive caliber. It is these ethical and cost factors which played heavily in to the NZ scenario - also the relatively low volumes of lead as a percentage of the whole national/annual shotgun projectile weight. This is obviously dominated by the larger bores. I appreciate that the UK has distinctly different hunting culture and practice, however the basic support for a youth entry caliber represents a strong case. I do hope that if common sense ever prevails (??) we can avoid the financial extinction of the 410. 

7 hours ago, wymberley said:

Cheers,

If common sense has owt to do with it we'd be in with a chance.

Indeed 👍