Red Squirrels Wales

[islandgun]

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65165959  You would think an eradication programme of an invasive spp would be funded by the rspb and packhams pals, simply use any means at your disposal, or they more concerned with game shooting

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, they are not interested in a logical way of culling grey squirrels by shooting so if the disease continues there be no red in Wales in years to come, I doubt many people in UK have seen a red squirrel, I was lucky to see them most days when I was growing up with acres woods with hazel and sweet chestnut to roam around in ,

Edited April 4, 2023 by oldypigeonpopper

[Good shot?]

I suspect Packham and co. want the greys and reds to live side by side , in harmony.

They cannot be seen to want to eradicate the greys.

[Mice!]

11 hours ago, Good shot? said:

I suspect Packham and co. want the greys and reds to live side by side , in harmony.

They cannot be seen to want to eradicate the greys.

Packham once stood on Hadrians wall and said maybe reds can live in the North and greys in the south,  problem is nobody in Cumbria or Northumberland agreed with that.

13 hours ago, islandgun said:

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65165959  You would think an eradication programme of an invasive spp would be funded by the rspb and packhams pals, simply use any means at your disposal, or they more concerned with game shooting

They don't want to be seen backing the killing of anything,  only nasty shooters/ hunters do that, they'd never back the clearing of mink from Scottish Islands now would they! 

And unfortunately unless there reds present a lot of big landowners aren't interested in controlling greys.

[islandgun]

10 hours ago, Mice! said:

Packham once stood on Hadrians wall and said maybe reds can live in the North and greys in the south,  problem is nobody in Cumbria or Northumberland agreed with that.

They don't want to be seen backing the killing of anything,  only nasty shooters/ hunters do that, they'd never back the clearing of mink from Scottish Islands now would they! 

And unfortunately unless there reds present a lot of big landowners aren't interested in controlling greys.

Indeed. RSPB. SNH and Gov funded the Mink project [still are] also clearing the black rats from the Shiants, and Hedgehogs from the Uist's thing is, this wasn't declared when looking for donations from the general public, imagine the uproar if they were seen to be killing cuddly grey squirrels. never mind lets find a vaccine and inject the reds and don't forget the boosters.

stick a bounty on the tail of every grey   

[243deer]

7 minutes ago, islandgun said:

stick a bounty on the tail of every grey   

Whilst this certainly would not do any harm I think finding enough skilled squirrel hunters would now be difficult. Plenty of folk with an air rifle think they could pop off a few greys and they can to start with, assuming the land owners grant permission. Even assuming hunters can do a reasonable job of reducing numbers over say the first year or two, once numbers reduce it will then take a lot of time and dedication to finish off the last few greys in an area. They will probably need trapping as they will, by this time, be extremely wary. If just one estate, privately or publicly owned does not 'sign up' to the program and acts as a reservoir (RSPB and wildlife trusts are classic examples as cuddly squirrels = memberships) 100% physical removal in an area will be almost impossible.

Realistically I would see more hope in a live vaccine that allowed existing reds to build up immunity and hopefully pass resistance on to their progeny. 

Whether after all this has been done the greys will simply kill the reds to stop food competition is another question that I do not have enough knowledge to answer.

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

Indeed. RSPB. SNH and Gov funded the Mink project [still are] also clearing the black rats from the Shiants, and Hedgehogs from the Uist's thing is, this wasn't declared when looking for donations from the general public, imagine the uproar if they were seen to be killing cuddly grey squirrels. never mind lets find a vaccine and inject the reds and don't forget the boosters.

stick a bounty on the tail of every grey   

Exactly,  when it's being done in out the way places and can be kept hush hush the big orgs are fine taking the money and allowing the work to be done.

A bounty is pointless,  it's more important that control takes place, especially where there are reds, groups talk about having control zones, but when you look at Formby the reds and greys constantly overlap which is why there are pox outbreaks every year. 

50 minutes ago, 243deer said:

Whilst this certainly would not do any harm I think finding enough skilled squirrel hunters would now be difficult. Plenty of folk with an air rifle think they could pop off a few greys and they can to start with, assuming the land owners grant permission. Even assuming hunters can do a reasonable job of reducing numbers over say the first year or two, once numbers reduce it will then take a lot of time and dedication to finish off the last few greys in an area. 

Your not wrong,  it's pretty easy to begin with,  but very different after a few years when your just keeping on top of the greys and often blanking.

This was printed in the Field,  its a small snippet of the full article showing how effective air rifles are when combined with feeders, but it needs land owners to be on board with the control,  not just signing up to the squirrel accords but doing nothing.

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, 243deer said:

Whilst this certainly would not do any harm I think finding enough skilled squirrel hunters would now be difficult. Plenty of folk with an air rifle think they could pop off a few greys and they can to start with, assuming the land owners grant permission. Even assuming hunters can do a reasonable job of reducing numbers over say the first year or two, once numbers reduce it will then take a lot of time and dedication to finish off the last few greys in an area. They will probably need trapping as they will, by this time, be extremely wary. If just one estate, privately or publicly owned does not 'sign up' to the program and acts as a reservoir (RSPB and wildlife trusts are classic examples as cuddly squirrels = memberships) 100% physical removal in an area will be almost impossible.

Realistically I would see more hope in a live vaccine that allowed existing reds to build up immunity and hopefully pass resistance on to their progeny. 

Whether after all this has been done the greys will simply kill the reds to stop food competition is another question that I do not have enough knowledge to answer.

Interesting good points.  how would they administer the vaccine ? food or catch and release

 

57 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Exactly,  when it's being done in out the way places and can be kept hush hush the big orgs are fine taking the money and allowing the work to be done.

A bounty is pointless,  it's more important that control takes place, especially where there are reds, groups talk about having control zones, but when you look at Formby the reds and greys constantly overlap which is why there are pox outbreaks every year. 

Your not wrong,  it's pretty easy to begin with,  but very different after a few years when your just keeping on top of the greys and often blanking.

This was printed in the Field,  its a small snippet of the full article showing how effective air rifles are when combined with feeders, but it needs land owners to be on board with the control,  not just signing up to the squirrel accords but doing nothing.

Your right, bounty would encourage people to only shoot where there are large numbers and leave remnants to breed again. when i was mink trapping we had a mink trapper visitor from Iceland where they had/have a bounty on mink tails, the conclusions reached was that it was never ideal to eradicate the mink if you are making money from it.

I was thinking that any reduction in numbers was better than none 

[Mice!]

43 minutes ago, islandgun said:

was thinking that any reduction in numbers was better than none 

Your right, reducing the numbers reduces the pressure on the greys, but with any greys around there's still the chance of pox.

44 minutes ago, islandgun said:

when i was mink trapping we had a mink trapper visitor from Iceland where they had/have a bounty on mink tails, the conclusions reached was that it was never ideal to eradicate the mink if you are making money from it.

I was told that people in Scotland were getting paid for trapping greys, but it was wide open to abuse, and people would stop trapping the day the payments stopped!

[243deer]

2 hours ago, islandgun said:

how would they administer the vaccine ? food or catch and release

Beyond my knowledge but if it could be via food you would think that would be the most effective.

I spoke to a friend today who grew up near Brandon. He tells me that when he were a lad they used to walk to the Forestry Commission at Santon Downham and shoot enough squirrels with air rifles on the way for the tails to pay for ciggies and chips. How times have changed, money (that the FC or whatever their modern name is, charge for shoots or deer stalking) of course, overriding good tree husbandry via vermin control.

I would love to be able to wander the FC woodland and control squirrels sadly I feel that this will now never happen